[AI] Sensory substitution in blind?

Kotian, H P hpkotian at rbi.org.in
Tue Dec 4 00:16:10 EST 2018


Hi

They have provided the video as evidence. My coleague's daughter who is sighted mentioned that his daughter participated in the mid brain activation programme and she could read things blind folded. Later she stopped practicing and soon the ability faded with it. This is the closest evidence I have first hand. Long back almost 15 years back, some of us had an opportunity to witness a similar feat from a team from Indonesia. This took place at ICEVI conference at Ahmedabad. Now when I look it, it seems to be a case of mid brain activation.

There are of course many video online making claims.

I think, it is important to scientifically catalogue it, follow proper protocol in the investigation process, identify a optimum number of good candidates and follow it up for a few years.

There are many such main stream programmes in cities like Mumbai but the whole process is not adequately documented. Although, they provide videos of the feats.
Even if one makes a conclusive pronouncement that the whole process is a hoax, it should be done after proper investigation. One can seek only when one approaches like a seeker. If you have already made a judgement then what can one hope to find?


Similarly, Evidence of telepathy cannot be proved physiologically, however statistically the evidence towards success rate proves positively.

Having said that, one should approach it with zero expectations, this wil save the moment if it does not work out.


Harish.

-----Original Mess
age-----
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-bounces at accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Rohith P
Sent: Monday, December 3, 2018 7:50 PM
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled. <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
Subject: Re: [AI] Sensory substitution in blind?

Dear Harish,
But do you know any child who can read blindfolded using this technique? And if someone can read blindfolded, a blind person should also be able to read because visual signals have no role. I think the responsibility of prooving such claims should be on the proponents of such claims. As you said, let them produce people benefited by the technique and then the medical science can study them. But I don't think we would find any beneficiaries.
There is no good relying on false hopes.

On 12/3/18, Kotian, H P <hpkotian at rbi.org.in> wrote:
> Dear Doc
>
> Fully agree with you regarding scientifically testing, replicating it etc.
>
> What if, there is a pool of kids who can scientifically demonstrate
> that they can read blind folded etc. Is it not scientific then to test
> the result and thereafter figure out the mechanisms involved.
>
> Why is it that no effort is done in that direction and merely rubbish
> the claim?
>
> Would you as a doctor do the honors then?
>
> I for one would hold my tongue until proven this is all a hoax and
> give the benefit of doubt. Let us not be caught in the nomenclature of
> mid brain activation etc. Let us first establish the fact that the
> kids trained in this technique can read blindfold and there is no cheating here.
>
> I don't think this should be difficult to establish. Preferably please
> videograph?
> Would you pl revert on this please?
>
> Would be eagerly awaiting to hear about the findings.
>
> Harish.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-bounces at accessindia.org.in] On
> Behalf Of Sharad Philip
> Sent: Friday, November 30, 2018 10:38 PM
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
> concerning the disabled. <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
> Subject: Re: [AI] Sensory substitution in blind?
>
> Dear sir
> I have been following this thread for the past few days . Being a
> medical doctor by training , i feel i should weigh in here and clarify
> some things you are saying here .
>
> Firstly , mainstream medical scientists as you call them are not a
> vile community that is looking out for personal commercial interests .
> Those in research and in clinical practice rarely overlap .anyhow , no
> one whether as a person or a community is specifically interested in
> benefiting from another human being s suffering or disability . As and
> when avenues of treatment / paliation have come up they have been
> brought into clinical practice after rigorous examinations by the
> scientific method . The sole aim for such an exercise is to ensure
> replicability of results . It a little bit more complicated than
> saying a pre and post comparison . There needs to be an understanding
> of why anything works , for whom it works , for those it did not work
> for why did not , what are the best parameters and qualifying
> situations , whether there are any ill effects for those healthy , any
> ill effects for those in need of the intervention , is there a way to
> predict who would benefit and who would not , and many other things .
> This is possible when the intervention is rooted in some physiological , pharmacological , biochemical basis .
>
> In the context of what is being discussed here , there is no
> physiological or any other scientific basis . The Midbrain is actually
> a part of the brain that controls a lot of vital functions such as
> respiration , body temperature etc amongst others . Some nerve fibers
> from the processing centres for vision do pass through this area .
> These also control some basic pursuit movements of the eye . Apart
> from this there also other cranial nerves that mediate taste , touch ,
> and the movements of face and neck muscles . However in the MIDBRAIN
> activation programs that are being discussed here , the midbrain
> referred to i s something in between the right and the left !!
>
> The only thing between the right and left hemispheres of the Brain is
> the connection system called the corpus callosum . There is no
> separate right and left Brain as is commonly referred to in these
> writings ! All right handed individuals are left dominant - a
> terminology used to refer to the fact that these people have their speech areas in the left hemispheres .
> Those left handed are more than 90% left dominant while a few are
> right dominant . This just implies that certain functions are
> subserved by certain areas . . Being right brained and left brained is
> something not based in neuroscience . Then where would the midbrain be is what should be asked !
>
> If the intervention works to reduce the impairment , i am happy as any
> of you would be but i would still want to know how it does . Unlike
> common belief , ill effects also plague any intervention - whether
> psychological , or any activation whatsoever . It is just that they
> are not recognised or identified . It would only be possible to
> identify such things in controlled studies . But alas , there is
> little scope for that to happen . An y such intervention when
> conducted by persons with specific training weds to weed out
> subjectiity minimise chance results and identify placebo effects . Such a controlled situation is rarely the case .
>
> Anyhow this is all i wanted to say and i hope it helped . With best
> regards
>
> Sharad
>
>
>
>> On 30-Nov-2018, at 4:20 PM, P. Subramani <subramani6912 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> obviously mainstream medical scientists will never ever verify and
>> certify the potents of alternate medicines/treatments as the medical
>> scientists will loss their business.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ved"
>> <vedprakash.sharma at gmail.com>
>> To: "'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>> concerning the disabled.'" <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
>> Sent: 30 November, 2018 7:04 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Sensory substitution in blind?
>>
>>
>>> Riaiki is not considered scientific. It is just a matter of faith.
>>> Healing by touch is practised by many riaiki Masters. However, it is
>>> not verified by any medical scientists or doctors.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-bounces at accessindia.org.in] On
>>> Behalf Of Sathiyaprakash Ramdoss
>>> Sent: Friday, November 30, 2018 12:55 PM
>>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>>> concerning the disabled. <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Sensory substitution in blind?
>>>
>>> Friends,
>>>
>>> You may want to read this following overview about Reiki and
>>> midbrain activation from this following link:
>>>
>>> http://reikimasterpuran.blogspot.noclick_noclick_com/p/mid-brain-act
>>> ivation-c
>>> ourse.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank You.
>>>
>>> Sathiya
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 11/29/18, Anshul Kapoor (अंशुल कपूर) <anshul.kapoor at gail.co.in>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> I enquired about this technique about 4-5 years back from a person
>>>> teaching the same in Gujarat. He was making sighted children read
>>>> books with their eyes closed. On enquiring he told me that it is
>>>> not possible for adults as people who develop logic cannot get
>>>> benefit from this technique. I mailed the same on access India at
>>>> that time also. Only children who haven't developed logical
>>>> thinking can successfully practice this technique. The person from
>>>> Gujarat told me that it is my business and I will benefit from it
>>>> but  adults cannot do this at all. My father told me about this on
>>>> viewing a TV channel and I searched for  his contact no. from the net.
>>>>
>>>> With regards
>>>>
>>>> Anshul Kapoor
>>>> Cell- 9958890358
>>>>
>>>> "In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right
>>>> thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing
>>>> you can do is nothing."
>>>> Theodore Roosevelt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-bounces at accessindia.org.in]
>>>> On Behalf Of Kriya Jain
>>>> Sent: Friday, November 30, 2018 11:25 AM
>>>> To: accessindia at accessindia.org.in
>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Sensory substitution in blind?
>>>>
>>>> Why not someone just tries it? anyways it's free. Having some mind
>>>> exercises and reiki won't harm anyone if not any good, right?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Kanchan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 10:28 AM Asudani, Rajesh
>>>> <rajeshasudani at rbi.org.in>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes, it is, and so I have changed it.
>>>>>
>>>>> As I have said earlier, it appears that information is conveyed
>>>>> via touch and other senses, information which appears primarily to
>>>>> be visual.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have heard of it in children below 15, and they were not willing
>>>>> to try it for me, i.e. totally blind person a little upwards of forty.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, if somebody has tried for blind children and is willing to
>>>>> try it out in blind adults, let us not scoff at the attempts.
>>>>> Yes, exaggerated claims like blind can see and associating
>>>>> prominent scientists unnecessarily should be avoided.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-bounces at accessindia.org.in]
>>>>> On Behalf Of George Abraham
>>>>> Sent: 30 November 2018 08:50
>>>>> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>>>>> concerning the disabled.' <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Visually impaired can see now!
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there a problem with the subject line. Is it a little misleading?
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-bounces at accessindia.org.in]
>>>>> On Behalf Of shobhan singh
>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 30, 2018 12:46 AM
>>>>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>>>>> concerning the disabled.
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Visually impaired can see now!
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear list members,
>>>>> First of all, I would like to make clear that I am dr. Shobhan
>>>>> Singh working as an Assistant Professor at Zakir Husain Delhi
>>>>> College in university of Delhi and I am also a visually impaired.
>>>>> I have not mentioned or claimed in any of my mail that I have
>>>>> specialization in Science of Mind or therapy which would be use to
>>>>> cure blindness during this 7 days’ camp.
>>>>> I
>>>>> am just an organizer and participant of the camp.
>>>>> Mr. Jitendra an IIT passed out and has worked as software Engeneer
>>>>> in Japan for 10 years belongs to Haryana State, is specialised in
>>>>> Science of Mind from Japan. Jitendra resigned from his job and
>>>>> after returning from Japan to India, he began his social service
>>>>> based on his own observations and inferences from Science of Mind
>>>>> and decided to cure blindness.
>>>>> As far as technique of the treatment is concern, it involves 4 steps:
>>>>> 1. Breathing excercises,
>>>>> 2. Pranic heeling,
>>>>> 3. Reki therapy and
>>>>> 4. Few certain brain exercises.
>>>>> Persons with visual impairment of any type and age group can be
>>>>> cured with these techniques however, it effectively and quickly
>>>>> works on below 40 years old people.
>>>>> But it does not mean or claim that these techniques would change
>>>>> one’s physical and medical conditions, it would just active sense
>>>>> of sight or seeing or to say its mid-brain activation.
>>>>> As far as medical certificate is concern, is not essential.Sent
>>>>> from my Iphone
>>>>>
>>>>> > On 29-Nov-2018, at 8:48 PM, bhawani shankar verma
>>>>> > <bsvermadurg at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I still can not understand that why this discussion is going in
>>>>> > this
>>>>> group.
>>>>> > it means that it is too easy to make foolish inteligent people.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Thu, 29 Nov 2018, 7:57 p.m. Austin Pinto
>>>>> > <austinpinto.xaviers at gmail.com
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> as shobhan singh says he will clear our doubts when free i have
>>>>> >> some questions which will be helpful for us.
>>>>> >> 1. if you carefully see the video the children are asked to
>>>>> >> touch shapes drawn on paper and find out size, color etc.
>>>>> >> why is this are the shapes drawn using some type of tactile or
>>>>> something?
>>>>> >> how can some1 find out color of shapes by touch.
>>>>> >> 2. who can benefit from this camp.
>>>>> >> can people with optic nerve damage attend?
>>>>> >> what are the age groups that can attend cause in this video we
>>>>> >> only see small children.
>>>>> >> please clarify.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>> On 11/29/18, sazid shaik <ashwaqahmed.nlr at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>> intresting,
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>> On 11/29/18, shobhan singh <shobhan19jnu at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>>> As soon as I will be free by this evening I will try to Clare
>>>>> >>>> all the doubts and confusions.
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> Sent from my Iphone
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>> On 29-Nov-2018, at 1:47 PM, Ved
>>>>> >>>>> <vedprakash.sharma at gmail.com>
>>>>> >>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> Why videos. Give your address and I am coming to attend the
>>>>> >>>>> camp in
>>>>> >> order
>>>>> >>>>> to see myself.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> >>>>> From: AccessIndia
>>>>> >>>>> [mailto:accessindia-bounces at accessindia.org.in]
>>>>> >>>>> On Behalf Of shobhan singh
>>>>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2018 3:25 PM
>>>>> >>>>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and
>>>>> >>>>> issues concerning the disabled.
>>>>> >>>>> <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
>>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Visually impaired can see now!
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> Yes all of them are able to see. Soon I will send videos by
>>>>> >>>>> this
>>>>> >> evening
>>>>> >>>>> of those people.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> Sent from my Iphone
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> On 28-Nov-2018, at 12:14 PM, bhawani shankar verma
>>>>> >>>>>> <bsvermadurg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> are they able to see now? those 400 blind children?
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: shobhan singh
>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2018 12:11 PM
>>>>> >>>>>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and
>>>>> >>>>>> issues concerning the disabled.
>>>>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Visually impaired can see now!
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> I'll send you the videos of the sessions conducted in
>>>>> >>>>>> Haryana, Ludhiyana and Calcutta Blind schools where about
>>>>> >>>>>> 400 children and adults have been treated successfully. It
>>>>> >>>>>> is completely based on certain brain exercises without any
>>>>> >>>>>> medication.
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/28/18, shankar.c at tech-accessibility.in
>>>>> >>>>>> <shankar.c at tech-accessibility.in> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi there,
>>>>> >>>>>>> As for as my concern, no 1 is debating on the subject, I
>>>>> >>>>>>> feel that, the viewers need the logic on the training.
>>>>> >>>>>>> So, if you could share the more details on the training or
>>>>> >>>>>>> the subject like, how it works and so on, people might get
>>>>> >>>>>>> convince and attend the training more and more.
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> >>>>>>> From: AccessIndia <accessindia-bounces at accessindia.org.in>
>>>>> >>>>>>> On Behalf Of shobhan singh
>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2018 11:23 AM
>>>>> >>>>>>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and
>>>>> >>>>>>> issues concerning the disabled.
>>>>> >>>>>>> <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
>>>>> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Visually impaired can see now!
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi there,
>>>>> >>>>>>> Its not matter of debate! Its matter of larger interest of
>>>>> >>>>>>> the persons with visual impairment. Its an individual
>>>>> >>>>>>> effort to conduct the session in different parts of India
>>>>> >>>>>>> and abroad. No one is forced
>>>>> >> to
>>>>> >>>>>>> join the training.
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my Iphone
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 28-Nov-2018, at 11:04 AM, manohar vaswani
>>>>> >>>>>>>> <vaswanims at gmail.com>
>>>>> >>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>> if visually impaired can see, then they will not be
>>>>> >>>>>>>> visually
>>>>> >> impaired!
>>>>> >>>>>>>> and as far as I know, Einstein was not a neurologist
>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/27/18, Maruti Paramwad <mparamwad at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>>>> How???? How can its possible? Without using any technology?
>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are you doing any magic?
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 27-Nov-2018, at 7:18 PM, shobhan singh
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> <shobhan19jnu at gmail.com
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dear friends,
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Each visually impaired can see and complete his/her
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> tasks without any technological interventions after
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> completing 7 days’ training at camp.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> After the completion: one can read and write, walk
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> independently, colour recognition will improve.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Interested persons with visual impairment may contact
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> to participate in this 7 days’  training Camp before
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> December, 2nd
>>>>> >> 2018
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> on: 9205803706.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It is free of cost for all!
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Search for old postings at:
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.noclick_noclick_noclick_com/acc
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> essindia@
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> accessindi
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> a.o
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> rg.in/
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>> >> nfo/acces
>>>>> >> sindia_acc
>>>>> >> ess
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>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> rg.in
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Disclaimer:
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>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _accessi
>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ndia
>>>>> >> .
>>>>> >>>>>>>>> or
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>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>> --
>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dr. Manohar  S. Vaswani
>>>>> >>>>>>>> Assistant Professor,
>>>>> >>>>>>>> Department of English
>>>>> >>>>>>>> Shivaji University, Kolhapur
>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cell: 09404825544
>>>>> >>>>>>>> Office: 0231-2609189
>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>
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>>>>> >>>>>>>> rg
>>>>> >>>>>>>> .in
>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>> Disclaimer:
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>>>>> >>>>>>>
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>>>>> >> g
>>>>> >>>>>> .in
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>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> Disclaimer:
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>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
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Disclaimer:
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________________________________

Caution: The Reserve Bank of India never sends mails, SMSs or makes calls asking for personal information such as your bank account details, passwords, etc. It never keeps or offers funds to anyone. Please do not respond in any manner to such offers, however official or attractive they may look.


Notice: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use, review, distribution, printing or copying of the information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If you have received this email by error, please notify us by return e-mail or telephone and immediately and permanently delete the message and any attachments. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The Reserve Bank of India accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email.


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