[AI] Scribe guidelines

Kanchan Pamnani kanchanpamnani at gmail.com
Wed Jun 27 05:07:38 EDT 2018


In reply to your 2.At the harshest level I can suggest that you ask the Examining Authorities to get you a writer. Also there is a rule of not less than matriculation. So 9th standard is not required.
As far as 3 is concerned  yes your brother will have different level of writer. 
This is to prevent your brother from having a overqualified scribe. 
Please understand that this matter has been going on for 12 years. We are reviewing the 2013 guidelines only because some of us decided to circumvent the law .. -----
Kanchan
-----Original Message-----
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-bounces at accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Yogesh Chhabra
Sent: 26 June 2018 19:23
To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled.
Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines

respected members and kanchan mam,
after reading the proposed guidelines I have some queries and situations which I am unable to see the solutions, 1, according to the proposed guidelines, the scribe should be one class below the candidates qualification then suppose if I am a language student like German and I am appearing for my first year exam. At this time who will be my scribe? whom should I take as a scribe for my first year examination? I am asking this because no one can read german or any other language and according to this situation I need to take one class lower scribe, that means in my case the 12th standard or below 12th class student. similarly, there are many courses in JNU and other universities like French, Spanish, ETC. who will be the scribe for such students in their first year course?
2. If I am a student of 11th standard and I have taken maths as one of my subject then I have to take 10th standard student as my scribe, but at the time of my examinations, the 10th standard students are also having their examination so I have no choice and I have to take 9th standard student to write my math examination. here the situation is that the 11th standard math and 9th standard's math is totally different and most of the things will be new for the scribe and he will find it difficult to read it for me. so in this situation, who will be my scribe?
3. suppose me and my brother are appearing for the railway examination and we both are visually impaired. my qualification is post graduate and my brother's qualification is 12th standard and both are eligible for this examination. according to the proposed scribe guidelines, I can take the scribe who is pursuing post graduation and my brother can take the 11th standard scribe only.
This situation will occur in the SSC 12th standard higher secondary level examination also.

so friends, what are the solutions for these situations?

On 6/26/18, Siva Suresh <sivasureshkatta at gmail.com> wrote:
> waw! amazing discussion. it was very helpful and people will be 
> greatly benifited if we have a strong guidelines for getting scribes.
> at the same time we should support the people who are talking on our 
> behalf. I thank Kanchan for your great effort to support every 
> visually impaired friends across india. it was a very helpful 
> discussion for every one.
>
> Thank you. Shivasuresh
>
>
> On 6/26/18, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamnani at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Shweta please don’t say you cant get a scribe because the Authorities 
>> are saying that they will provide and we don’t have to worry.
>> All my effort will go to nought.
>> K
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-bounces at accessindia.org.in] On 
>> Behalf Of Shweta Mishra
>> Sent: 26 June 2018 16:30
>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
>> concerning the disabled.
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>
>> but bhawani sir, it'll be very difficult for many candidates to get a 
>> good studying scribe,because these days, students are very busy in 
>> their own assignments. then how will they be able to  give their 
>> precious time to some one?
>>
>> On 6/26/18, bhawani shankar verma <bsvermadurg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> the qualification of the scribe should be one standard less what the 
>>> post requires not the qualification of candidate. if a clerk exam 
>>> requires minimum 12th pass then the scribe should be at 11th standard.
>>> no matter the education of candidate whether is PHD or 12th. this 
>>> means a PHD qualified candidate can bring 11th pass person for scribe.
>>> only the regular students or studying candidates should be allowed 
>>> as scribe.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Shweta Mishra
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 3:34 PM
>>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
>>> concerning the disabled.
>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>>
>>> right Kanchan mam.
>>> but according to me, if a PHD candidate is allow to bring a graduate 
>>> scribe, then the twelfth passed candidate should also be allowed to 
>>> bring graduate scribe.
>>>
>>> On 6/26/18, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamnani at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> No Harish. Shweta was more right than you.
>>>> So lets go with the clerk example.
>>>>
>>>> There are 2 candidates-one has a PHD and one is a12th pass.
>>>> The12th pass can get a scribe who is not a 12th pass. The PHD can 
>>>> get a scribe who is not a PhD but definitely more than a 12 pass. 
>>>> Sounds unfair but actually it might solve this problem of professional writers.
>>>> Kanchan
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-bounces at accessindia.org.in] 
>>>> On Behalf Of Kotian, H P
>>>> Sent: 26 June 2018 14:44
>>>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
>>>> concerning the disabled.
>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>>>
>>>> Hi
>>>> If I understand the scenario correct for example the post is for a 
>>>> clerk for which the minimum qualification is HSC, there are 2 
>>>> candidates one a post graduate and another a HSC. The qualification 
>>>> to consider for the job is HSC and not the qualification of the 
>>>> candidate.
>>>> Therefore the qualification for a scribe should not be HSC passed 
>>>> in this case.
>>>>
>>>> I am aware the minimum qualification for clerk is no more HSC.
>>>> Mentioned it for illustration purpose.
>>>>
>>>> Harish.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-bounces at accessindia.org.in] 
>>>> On Behalf Of Shweta Mishra
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 1:51 PM
>>>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
>>>> concerning the disabled. <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>>>
>>>> hi friends!
>>>> it means, scribe criteria will be different for for candidates with 
>>>> different qualification.
>>>> for example, a post graduate and a twelfth passed candidate is 
>>>> appearing for the same competitive exam, then what will be scribe 
>>>> criteria for both candidates?
>>>> if a post graduate candidate will bring graduate scribe, then won't 
>>>> it be injustice to the twelfth passed candidate? because twelfth 
>>>> passed candidate will be allowed to bring maximum eleventh passed 
>>>> scribe.
>>>>
>>>> On 6/26/18, Lyngdoh <cornelyngdoh at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I 
>>>>> mean what qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? 
>>>>> In the past I have always looked for graduates.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6/26/18, Asudani, Rajesh <rajeshasudani at rbi.org.in> wrote:
>>>>>> Congrats!
>>>>>> Retention of capacity to choose own scribe, though less in 
>>>>>> qualification than oneself, along with freedom to use devices, 
>>>>>> and meet the scribe two days in advance is a superb victory.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At least folks now at least, stop using professional scribes.
>>>>>> Accessible exams, if online or computerized, is the ultimate dream.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> सादर / With thanks & Regards
>>>>>> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
>>>>>> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
>>>>>> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
>>>>>> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India नागपुर Nagpur
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 0712 2806846
>>>>>>
>>>>>> President
>>>>>> VIBEWA
>>>>>> Co-Moderator
>>>>>> VIB-India
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic 
>>>>>> and laughter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-bounces at accessindia.org.in]
>>>>>> On Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani
>>>>>> Sent: 25 June 2018 16:18
>>>>>> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues 
>>>>>> concerning the disabled.'
>>>>>> Subject: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have 
>>>>>> already heard what happened but let me explain a few issues
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1.       You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts 
>>>>>> and definitely more than what we had demanded at different times.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2.       So far about one year there was not too much of a problem
>>>>>> because
>>>>>> no one really implemented the guidelines.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3.       Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying that
>>>>>> these
>>>>>> guidelines were unfair.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4.       Some of our own VI candidates decided that these guidelines
>>>>>> gave
>>>>>> them the right to have overqualified or should I say coached writers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 5.       Our other VI who suffered because of the special writers
>>>>>> complained
>>>>>> to U P S C and to the Courts-Bombay and Eranakulam I am told.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 6.       Then the Government set up our committee. We met about 3
>>>>>> times
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> could not agree so the MSJE set up a sub-committee.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 7.       This subcommittee gave a report which we had to discuss at
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> meeting on 20th June.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 8.       I had shared the sub-committee's report and the comments of U
>>>>>> PS
>>>>>> C
>>>>>> and SSC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 9.       Our meeting started an hour and half late because the
>>>>>> Secretary
>>>>>> had
>>>>>> gone to meet the Minister.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 10.   Before she came in the other committee members gave theiropinion
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> the subcommittees report. Only Mr. Rungta and I were left to give 
>>>>>> our comments when the Secretary arrived and we started the formal 
>>>>>> meeting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 11.   It was quite a hot debate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 12.   The problem with govt agencies is that they don't send the same
>>>>>> person
>>>>>> to the followup meetings. This includes U P S C and our own NIVH.
>>>>>> This hampers progressive discussion and we cannot pin the 
>>>>>> representative down.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 13.   There was no problem with compensatory time etc. The
>>>>>> recommendations
>>>>>> of the Sub-committee were accepted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 14.   So what have we won or should I say retained-the first right of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> candidate to choose his scribe. If not available then the 
>>>>>> Examining body can provide not less than a matriculate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 15.   Further you can meet your scribe 2 days in advance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 16.   Some other devices etc for other disabilities that can be
>>>>>> used.Our
>>>>>> committee added to Sub committee recommendations. This added to 
>>>>>> the original guidelines.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 17.   The only problem with the subcommittee's  suggestion is that
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> not allowing you to use your own laptop. I however feel that this 
>>>>>> should not be in the guidelines.  I know atleast 2 members on 
>>>>>> this list who have used their own laptops and didn't have a 
>>>>>> problem after explanations. This may be considered to be a loss 
>>>>>> and squarely attributable to the subcommittee.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 18.   Now the loss that will bother us some day-the scribe has to be
>>>>>> less
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> qualification than the candidate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 19.   So this guideline has got nothing to do with the exam but only
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> the candidate. Keeping in mind that the minimum educational 
>>>>>> qualification for a scribe is matriculation. This does not sound 
>>>>>> too bad but ground realities will tell.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 20.   So the meeting ended about three and half hours later with 2
>>>>>> cups
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> tea and 4 biscuits thrown in. The Secretary will have to report 
>>>>>> to the courts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 21.   The fact that we have the right to choose our own scribe is
>>>>>> going
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> be debated over and over again until we stop the malpractises and 
>>>>>> each of you reading my email or whatsapp need to take care of the 
>>>>>> situation. You are responsible for what lies ahead. I know the 
>>>>>> argument about supervision.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 22.   It is not an easy task to take the whole room on by just 2
>>>>>> people.
>>>>>> We
>>>>>> did it because you gave us strength. We were prepared and many 
>>>>>> weren't.
>>>>>> However it has taken lots of persuasion, anger, raised voices and 
>>>>>> a lot of diplomacy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 23.   What will let us down is the continuous  use of professional
>>>>>> scribes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 24.   Please help by giving me the reference to the Bombay High Court
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> Eranakulam cases. We will have to intervene.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 25.   Thanks to each of you who respond to my urgent requests and give
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> input on these crucial issues.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 26.   It has been 12 years battling this menace. I wish I dint have to
>>>>>> face
>>>>>> a meetingwhere I am told that my people are cheating. I further 
>>>>>> wish that none of my people suffer because of bad scribes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kanchan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Believe in WORK not in LUCK! & Most of all, trust in God but don't 
>>>>> be dependent on Him.
>>>>> ---
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Cornelius Lyngdoh.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>
>
> --
> thank you and warm regards.
> shivasuresh.
> reach me through the following means
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> e- mail I D sivasureshkatta at gmail.com
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