[AI] Scribe guidelines

Siva Suresh sivasureshkatta at gmail.com
Wed Jun 27 01:30:55 EDT 2018


dear rajesh sir.

I think it would be nice if the laptops are allowed for writing
descriptive Exams and the audio device with buttens for MCq papers can
make us very confident in taking exams.

Thank you

On 6/27/18, Asudani, Rajesh <rajeshasudani at rbi.org.in> wrote:
> I support audio player with buttons for MCQ papers.
> But, audio files for descriptive papers would change the very nature of exam
> and valuation will also not be proper.
>
>
> सादर / With thanks & Regards
> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India
> नागपुर Nagpur
>
> 0712 2806846
>
> President
> VIBEWA
> Co-Moderator
> VIB-India
>
> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic and
> laughter.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-bounces at accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
> Of Siva Suresh
> Sent: 27 June 2018 09:52
> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning
> the disabled. <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>
> good suggestion! if this can come visually impaired people can be more
> independent in writing Exams and that can avoid mal practices.
>
> On 6/27/18, bhawani shankar verma <bsvermadurg at gmail.com> wrote:
>> in my opinion, an audio player should be developed like an EVM
>> machine. on which a blind candidate can listen the question and can
>> press the appropriate button for the answer. filling of roll numbers
>> etc can also be digitised by that way. for descriptive papers,
>> submition of audio file should be allowed.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ashish Jha
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 10:43 PM
>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>> concerning the disabled.
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I believe that the intension to allow one grade junier candidate as
>> scribe is to prevent malpractises and curb the use of professional
>> scribes.
>> Let us assume a situation. A VI candidate is appearing for Bank PO
>> examination or CAT which has graduation as eligibility. Ideally, as
>> per proposed guidelines, the scribe should be less than a graduate.
>> So, my understanding is that the scribe can be under graduate who is
>> studying in first or second year of the graduation. Now, let say that
>> the scribe is an IITian studying in 1st or 2nd year or in similar
>> premier institutions, considering him/her to be good enough in
>> mathematical/reasoning skills.
>> So, are we able to prevent the mal practise here with reducing the
>> eligibility criteria of the scribe? This is my dout please.
>>
>> I think a deep thoughts should be given before concluding, so that it
>> should not become a real challenge for a deserving candidate in
>> appearing examination and giving their best. There are instances,
>> specially in remote and small urban areas where deserving candidate
>> struggle with getting scribe and adding further limitations may turn
>> things more complicated for them. This can further be thought for the
>> North Eastern areas where again literacy is not very significant and
>> they need to rely on their limited resources.
>> Presently, I believe, there are  only few institutions like UPSC where
>> a candidate can opt for a scribe of the institution itself, if they
>> find difficult to manage their own scribe.
>>
>> I believe that the vigillant system shall be strengthened at very
>> first level by the examiner. I can recall, an Provisional IPS was
>> caught last year while writing UPSC CS Mains examination while using
>> his digital device. So, similar vigilant system shall be there while
>> VI writing his/her examination.
>>
>> Yes, I am in line if laptop is allowed as an alternative solution, but
>> the care should be taken about the accessibility of the design of the
>> question paper. I think this can go in long run.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/26/18, Yogesh Chhabra <yogesh4040 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> respected members and kanchan mam,
>>> after reading the proposed guidelines I have some queries and
>>> situations which I am unable to see the solutions, 1, according to
>>> the proposed guidelines, the scribe should be one class below the
>>> candidates qualification then suppose if I am a language student like
>>> German and I am appearing for my first year exam. At this time who
>>> will be my scribe? whom should I take as a scribe for my first year
>>> examination? I am asking this because no one can read german or any
>>> other language and according to this situation I need to take one
>>> class lower scribe, that means in my case the 12th standard or below
>>> 12th class student. similarly, there are many courses in JNU and
>>> other universities like French, Spanish, ETC. who will be the scribe
>>> for such students in their first year course?
>>> 2. If I am a student of 11th standard and I have taken maths as one
>>> of my subject then I have to take 10th standard student as my scribe,
>>> but at the time of my examinations, the 10th standard students are
>>> also having their examination so I have no choice and I have to take
>>> 9th standard student to write my math examination. here the situation
>>> is that the 11th standard math and 9th standard's math is totally
>>> different and most of the things will be new for the scribe and he
>>> will find it difficult to read it for me. so in this situation, who
>>> will be my scribe?
>>> 3. suppose me and my brother are appearing for the railway
>>> examination and we both are visually impaired. my qualification is
>>> post graduate and my brother's qualification is 12th standard and
>>> both are eligible for this examination. according to the proposed
>>> scribe guidelines, I can take the scribe who is pursuing post
>>> graduation and my brother can take the 11th standard scribe only.
>>> This situation will occur in the SSC 12th standard higher secondary
>>> level examination also.
>>>
>>> so friends, what are the solutions for these situations?
>>>
>>> On 6/26/18, Siva Suresh <sivasureshkatta at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> waw! amazing discussion. it was very helpful and people will be
>>>> greatly benifited if we have a strong guidelines for getting scribes.
>>>> at the same time we should support the people who are talking on our
>>>> behalf. I thank Kanchan for your great effort to support every
>>>> visually impaired friends across india. it was a very helpful
>>>> discussion for every one.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you. Shivasuresh
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6/26/18, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamnani at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Shweta please don’t say you cant get a scribe because the
>>>>> Authorities are saying that they will provide and we don’t have to
>>>>> worry.
>>>>> All my effort will go to nought.
>>>>> K
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-bounces at accessindia.org.in]
>>>>> On Behalf Of Shweta Mishra
>>>>> Sent: 26 June 2018 16:30
>>>>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>>>>> concerning the disabled.
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>>>>
>>>>> but bhawani sir, it'll be very difficult for many candidates to get
>>>>> a good studying scribe,because these days, students are very busy
>>>>> in their own assignments. then how will they be able to  give their
>>>>> precious time to some one?
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6/26/18, bhawani shankar verma <bsvermadurg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> the qualification of the scribe should be one standard less what
>>>>>> the post requires not the qualification of candidate. if a clerk
>>>>>> exam requires minimum 12th pass then the scribe should be at 11th
>>>>>> standard.
>>>>>> no matter the education of candidate whether is PHD or 12th. this
>>>>>> means a PHD qualified candidate can bring 11th pass person for
>>>>>> scribe.
>>>>>> only the regular students or studying candidates should be allowed
>>>>>> as scribe.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Shweta Mishra
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 3:34 PM
>>>>>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>>>>>> concerning the disabled.
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>>>>>
>>>>>> right Kanchan mam.
>>>>>> but according to me, if a PHD candidate is allow to bring a
>>>>>> graduate scribe, then the twelfth passed candidate should also be
>>>>>> allowed to bring graduate scribe.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 6/26/18, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamnani at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> No Harish. Shweta was more right than you.
>>>>>>> So lets go with the clerk example.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are 2 candidates-one has a PHD and one is a12th pass.
>>>>>>> The12th pass can get a scribe who is not a 12th pass. The PHD can
>>>>>>> get a scribe who is not a PhD but definitely more than a 12 pass.
>>>>>>> Sounds unfair but actually it might solve this problem of
>>>>>>> professional writers.
>>>>>>> Kanchan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-bounces at accessindia.org.in]
>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Kotian, H P
>>>>>>> Sent: 26 June 2018 14:44
>>>>>>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>>>>>>> concerning the disabled.
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>> If I understand the scenario correct for example the post is for
>>>>>>> a clerk for which the minimum qualification is HSC, there are 2
>>>>>>> candidates one a post graduate and another a HSC. The
>>>>>>> qualification to consider for the job is HSC and not the
>>>>>>> qualification of the candidate.
>>>>>>> Therefore the qualification for a scribe should not be HSC passed
>>>>>>> in this case.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am aware the minimum qualification for clerk is no more HSC.
>>>>>>> Mentioned it for illustration purpose.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Harish.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-bounces at accessindia.org.in]
>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Shweta Mishra
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 1:51 PM
>>>>>>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
>>>>>>> concerning the disabled. <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> hi friends!
>>>>>>> it means, scribe criteria will be different for for candidates
>>>>>>> with different qualification.
>>>>>>> for example, a post graduate and a twelfth passed candidate is
>>>>>>> appearing for the same competitive exam, then what will be scribe
>>>>>>> criteria for both candidates?
>>>>>>> if a post graduate candidate will bring graduate scribe, then
>>>>>>> won't it be injustice to the twelfth passed candidate? because
>>>>>>> twelfth passed candidate will be allowed to bring maximum
>>>>>>> eleventh passed scribe.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 6/26/18, Lyngdoh <cornelyngdoh at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I
>>>>>>>> mean what qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe
>>>>>>>> then? In the past I have always looked for graduates.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 6/26/18, Asudani, Rajesh <rajeshasudani at rbi.org.in> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Congrats!
>>>>>>>>> Retention of capacity to choose own scribe, though less in
>>>>>>>>> qualification than oneself, along with freedom to use devices,
>>>>>>>>> and meet the scribe two days in advance is a superb victory.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> At least folks now at least, stop using professional scribes.
>>>>>>>>> Accessible exams, if online or computerized, is the ultimate
>>>>>>>>> dream.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> सादर / With thanks & Regards
>>>>>>>>> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani
>>>>>>>>> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM
>>>>>>>>> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU
>>>>>>>>> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India नागपुर Nagpur
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 0712 2806846
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> President
>>>>>>>>> VIBEWA
>>>>>>>>> Co-Moderator
>>>>>>>>> VIB-India
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic
>>>>>>>>> and laughter.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: AccessIndia
>>>>>>>>> [mailto:accessindia-bounces at accessindia.org.in]
>>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani
>>>>>>>>> Sent: 25 June 2018 16:18
>>>>>>>>> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and
>>>>>>>>> issues concerning the disabled.'
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [AI] Scribe guidelines
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have
>>>>>>>>> already heard what happened but let me explain a few issues
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1.       You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the
>>>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts
>>>>>>>>> and definitely more than what we had demanded at different times.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2.       So far about one year there was not too much of a problem
>>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>>> no one really implemented the guidelines.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 3.       Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>> guidelines were unfair.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 4.       Some of our own VI candidates decided that these
>>>>>>>>> guidelines
>>>>>>>>> gave
>>>>>>>>> them the right to have overqualified or should I say coached
>>>>>>>>> writers.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 5.       Our other VI who suffered because of the special writers
>>>>>>>>> complained
>>>>>>>>> to U P S C and to the Courts-Bombay and Eranakulam I am told.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 6.       Then the Government set up our committee. We met about 3
>>>>>>>>> times
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> could not agree so the MSJE set up a sub-committee.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 7.       This subcommittee gave a report which we had to discuss
>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>> meeting on 20th June.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 8.       I had shared the sub-committee's report and the comments
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> U
>>>>>>>>> PS
>>>>>>>>> C
>>>>>>>>> and SSC.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 9.       Our meeting started an hour and half late because the
>>>>>>>>> Secretary
>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>> gone to meet the Minister.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 10.   Before she came in the other committee members gave
>>>>>>>>> theiropinion
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> the subcommittees report. Only Mr. Rungta and I were left to
>>>>>>>>> give our comments when the Secretary arrived and we started the
>>>>>>>>> formal meeting.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 11.   It was quite a hot debate.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 12.   The problem with govt agencies is that they don't send the
>>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>> to the followup meetings. This includes U P S C and our own NIVH.
>>>>>>>>> This hampers progressive discussion and we cannot pin the
>>>>>>>>> representative down.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 13.   There was no problem with compensatory time etc. The
>>>>>>>>> recommendations
>>>>>>>>> of the Sub-committee were accepted.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 14.   So what have we won or should I say retained-the first right
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> candidate to choose his scribe. If not available then the
>>>>>>>>> Examining body can provide not less than a matriculate.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 15.   Further you can meet your scribe 2 days in advance.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 16.   Some other devices etc for other disabilities that can be
>>>>>>>>> used.Our
>>>>>>>>> committee added to Sub committee recommendations. This added to
>>>>>>>>> the original guidelines.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 17.   The only problem with the subcommittee's  suggestion is that
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> not allowing you to use your own laptop. I however feel that
>>>>>>>>> this should not be in the guidelines.  I know atleast 2 members
>>>>>>>>> on this list who have used their own laptops and didn't have a
>>>>>>>>> problem after explanations. This may be considered to be a loss
>>>>>>>>> and squarely attributable to the subcommittee.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 18.   Now the loss that will bother us some day-the scribe has to
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> less
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> qualification than the candidate.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 19.   So this guideline has got nothing to do with the exam but
>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> the candidate. Keeping in mind that the minimum educational
>>>>>>>>> qualification for a scribe is matriculation. This does not
>>>>>>>>> sound too bad but ground realities will tell.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 20.   So the meeting ended about three and half hours later with 2
>>>>>>>>> cups
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> tea and 4 biscuits thrown in. The Secretary will have to report
>>>>>>>>> to the courts.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 21.   The fact that we have the right to choose our own scribe is
>>>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> be debated over and over again until we stop the malpractises
>>>>>>>>> and each of you reading my email or whatsapp need to take care
>>>>>>>>> of the situation. You are responsible for what lies ahead. I
>>>>>>>>> know the argument about supervision.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 22.   It is not an easy task to take the whole room on by just 2
>>>>>>>>> people.
>>>>>>>>> We
>>>>>>>>> did it because you gave us strength. We were prepared and many
>>>>>>>>> weren't.
>>>>>>>>> However it has taken lots of persuasion, anger, raised voices
>>>>>>>>> and a lot of diplomacy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 23.   What will let us down is the continuous  use of professional
>>>>>>>>> scribes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 24.   Please help by giving me the reference to the Bombay High
>>>>>>>>> Court
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> Eranakulam cases. We will have to intervene.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 25.   Thanks to each of you who respond to my urgent requests and
>>>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>> input on these crucial issues.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 26.   It has been 12 years battling this menace. I wish I dint
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> face
>>>>>>>>> a meetingwhere I am told that my people are cheating. I further
>>>>>>>>> wish that none of my people suffer because of bad scribes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Kanchan
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Believe in WORK not in LUCK! & Most of all, trust in God but
>>>>>>>> don't be dependent on Him.
>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Cornelius Lyngdoh.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> Work Hard In Silence, Let Success Make The Noise.
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Work Hard In Silence, Let Success Make The Noise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Work Hard In Silence, Let Success Make The Noise.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> thank you and warm regards.
>>>> shivasuresh.
>>>> reach me through the following means
>>>> mobile no. 9550437181.
>>>> e- mail I D sivasureshkatta at gmail.com
>>>> skype I D sivasuresh.katta
>>>> hyderabad
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>
>
> --
> thank you and warm regards.
> shivasuresh.
> reach me through the following means
> mobile no. 9550437181.
> e- mail I D sivasureshkatta at gmail.com
> skype I D sivasuresh.katta
> hyderabad
>
>
>
>
> Search for old postings at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
>
> To unsubscribe send a message to
> accessindia-request at accessindia.org.in
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>
>
> Disclaimer:
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> person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;
>
> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails
> sent through this mailing list..
>
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-- 
thank you and warm regards.
shivasuresh.
reach me through the following means
mobile no. 9550437181.
e- mail I D sivasureshkatta at gmail.com
skype I D sivasuresh.katta
hyderabad



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