[AI] Difficulties in Banking

Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasudani at rbi.org.in
Wed May 26 01:51:36 EDT 2010


I perceive the matter  of undertakings as being afraid of anything new.
Bear in mind, when typewriters were invented, women were required to furnish a medical certificate that they are fit enough to operate typewriter.
Now, is not it ridiculous?
A few years ago, a  girl from chandrapur found a place in Guinness book for being the fastest typist at the age of 7 and typing 170WPM.
So, if apart from general undertakings if anything else is required by way of disability, then it must be established by rules.
And rules also can be modified  to be in sync with relevance of disability for a particular transactions.
For instance, maharashtra government has not identified any post of lecturer in any subject but music for blind, does anyone with minimum rational capacity see any logic in this?
So, let us be logical, and evaluate the implications of any disability and its consequent relevance in formulating the rules for any matter.

So, practice of lowly officials framing their arbitrary rules needs to be severely dealt with any possible manner.
Like Doctor Lahane an eye specialists feels that totally blind are not capable to discharge many of jobs identified in central list, and so has debarred them from undertaking them in maharashtra by committees and issuing so many GRs.
I know cases are being fought by our honorable members for it, on the ground there is hardly any change.

So, I sincerely feel we must adopt all and every means to have sound laws and rules in place and then curb anybody except legislature from tempering with them.


Regards

"Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him."

                                        --Arthur C. Clarke

(Rajesh Asudani)

Assistant General Manager,
Reserve Bank of India
Nagpur
09420397185
O: 0712 2806676
Res: 0712 2591349




-----Original Message-----
From: accessindia-bounces at accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-bounces at accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Viraj Kafle
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:42 AM
To: accessindia at accessindia.org.in
Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking

The discussion has not rolled back by any means. We are not talking about
general undertaking that every customer has to give, but unnecessary
impositions made on people on the basis of their disabilities. Is asking NOC
from the parents of a capable visually challenged  a general undertaking?

Of course, one can always choose between brands. But when brands indulge in
whatever they want in order to maximise profit or to corner people of
certain sections of society, only talking about choice would not be
politically correct. I am quite happy with SBI, but does that mean that I
should keep mum and remain complacent when someone, not me, is denied or is
illogically imposed by the PNB, or any other bank for that matter? When a
precedence gets established, particularly a wrong one, it does not take much
time to spread and be widely accepted. The same applies to the precedence of
denial. We can always boycott one for the other, but at the same time it is
our right as well as obligation to speak against and thoroughly expose those
involving in cornering certain sections of society in one way or the other.
----- Original Message -----
From: "BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA" <bsvermadurg at gmail.com>
To: <mrmukeshsharma at gmail.com>; <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:07 AM
Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking


> yes, now the entire discussion is rolled back. the matter is whether a
> customer should give undertaking or not. if 2-3 line undertaking solve
> your problem, then what is the matter. practice of undertaking is all for
> general, not for blind customers.  we take undertaking in minor account,
> some times in pension account, if a pensioner is to old, unable to execute
> his transactions  and can not step up to the branch. blind person has to
> face many problem in his daily living, banking is one of them. do we get
> barrier free environment in our city? we have PWD act for it. not only
> blind, each and every type  of disabled person must have full right to get
> all services. whether it is banking, telecom, railways, airlines,
> electricity. law and rules are the guidelines. the person sitting on the
> chair, how he interpreted this law. my suggestion is don't be a brand
> loyal, be a system loyal. if you want to buy a soft drink, there are to
> many shops, being an employee of PNB, if my bank denies any services to
> me, i won't hesitate to avail that particular service from another bank.
> suppose, if your salary account exist with ABC  bank but their loan rates
> are higher then XYZ bank, then you will bank, then you will fopefully
> won't avail the loan facility from that bank.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mukesh Sharma" <mrmukeshsharma at gmail.com>
> To: <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
>
>
>> Give me one such case.
>> When issuing ATM card, the bank in their pure diplomatic language express
>> "NO RISK of the BANK" on the misuse of the Card and the undertaking has
>> to
>> be signed by the customer  and I guess that is sufficient to save your
>> job!
>> This is what should be done for every customer irrespective of the so
>> called
>> disability or ability to see or even use ATM independently.
>> The bread and butter is forcing you to stand by bankers approach but what
>> about your personal opinion.
>> Or let's do it other way, suppose you are a customer and I am a BM,
>> explain
>> me why I shouldn't issue a ATM Card to you, if you can not, then help in
>> your capacity to get every individual to enjoy facility equally be it of
>> ATM
>> or Cheque Book.
>> A BM is there to make life of customer easier and not difficult else the
>> scheme of banking would have not been possible for illiterate and BPL
>> customer.
>> Thanks
>> Mukesh
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: accessindia-bounces at accessindia.org.in
>> [mailto:accessindia-bounces at accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of BHAWANI
>> SHANKAR
>> VERMA
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:09 PM
>> To: accessindia at accessindia.org.in
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
>>
>> yes! this is a matter, if that anybody did a fraud with that blind
>> person,
>> cheated him, then. my four or five colleagues will loose their job, if
>> that
>> blind person stand before the court. who issued ATM card? the employee
>> who
>> entered his card details on issue register, the employee entered his
>> details
>> on CBS system. who will come to convince the court that entire risk goes
>> to
>> that blind person?
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "AMEEN" <ameen.ettattu at gmail.com>
>> To: <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:00 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
>>
>>
>>> screen reading software has nothing to do with issuing ATM cards to VI
>>> persons.
>>> for, he can operate
>>> it with the help of anybody whom he chooses.
>>> that is non of the business of the bank.
>>> if there is any risk involved in it, the person will bear it.
>>> then why should raise all lame excuses and arguments?
>>> are you willing to comply with the rules and regulations stipulated by
>>> RBI?
>>> Ameen.----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA" <bsvermadurg at gmail.com>
>>> To: "B. R. Nautial" <brnautial at gmail.com>; "access india"
>>> <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:18 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
>>>
>>>
>>>> you are absolutely right sir, i found that only blind customer's part
>>>> is
>>>> discussed here. we should also consider banker's part. secondly, again
>>>> i
>>>> am
>>>> to say that bank has full right to ask his customer, why he should
>>>> require a
>>>> check book. only for prestige or he has any use of it. if he or she
>>>> avail
>>>> check book facility, he has to maintain minimum balance in his
>>>> account to continue this facility. some times we also make our
>>>> blindness
>>>> complicated. if any one show the law and rules, then being a banker, i
>>>> am
>>>> giving my ATM card and pin number to that blind customer, I will also
>>>> take
>>>> him to the ATM machine, but, i will not assist him to read out the
>>>> menus
>>>> and
>>>> commands on ATM. will he independently withdraw his money? if so, could
>>>> anybody voluntarily come to have a practical session? condition is a
>>>> person
>>>> should be bona fied blind. RBI says that 33% of
>>>> ATMs should be accessible to blind persons, and it is stated on the
>>>> same
>>>> circular, which all our friends have mentioned here. now as a branch
>>>> manager, it does not come in my power to install such ATMs. only my
>>>> head
>>>> office can do that. now in writing, i can reply that customer: "I
>>>> accept
>>>> your application for ATM card. since, as per the RBI circular our
>>>> branch
>>>> does not have ATM accessible to blind person, and also in our city
>>>> there
>>>> is
>>>> no ATM installed, which is accessible to the blind person, hence, your
>>>> application is pending for consideration. as soon as. an accessible ATM
>>>> will
>>>> be installed, you will be facilitated ATM card. our hon'ble blind
>>>> customer
>>>> unable to operate ATM which exist in our branch,  independently,
>>>> further,
>>>> this matter has
>>>> been referred to our authorities."
>>>> thanking you,
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "B. R. Nautial" <brnautial at gmail.com>
>>>> To: <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
>>>> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 7:40 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> no sir, its not a question of ego here. in my opinion, both the
>>>>> parties
>>>>> are almost right on their places. generally, all these facilities are
>>>>> quite risky for the blind, that's why, most of the bank manager of
>>>>> various
>>>>> banks are not even against the blind customers but don't want to give
>>>>> all
>>>>> these facilities to the them only because they know,
>>>>> in case of any fraud with the blind customer, they may be questioned
>>>>> before the court and may be punished for their negligence.
>>>>> In various banks, where the branch manager is flexible and satisfied
>>>>> with
>>>>> your arguments or fully aware with the rules and regulations, they are
>>>>> more sympathetic  with the blind. They don't create such problems to
>>>>> any
>>>>> of the blind person. More or less,  they are not our enemy so
>>>>> the issue should be raised before the higher authorities  with the
>>>>> help
>>>>> of various NGO's.
>>>>>
>>>>> With Regards
>>>>> B. R. Nautial
>>>>> Mobile: +919915073368
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Kamal Verma" <kamalverma at pnb.co.in>
>>>>> To: <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:26 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Sir,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The customer is trying to satisfy his ego. Otherwise, he should have
>>>>>> produced NOC or any such endorsement from his parrents.  The problems
>>>>>> might have been solved. Details of this blind  customer have not been
>>>>>> discussed in the list. There are number of blind customers availing
>>>>>> ATM,
>>>>>> cheque book and other facilities from PNB.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards.
>>>>>> Kamal Verma
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Asudani, Rajesh" <rajeshasudani at rbi.org.in>
>>>>>> To: <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:56 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>        Who is bloody branch manager to sit in judgment over rules
>>>>>>> framed
>>>>>>> by regulator?
>>>>>>> If he/she has to question them, let him represent to central bank or
>>>>>>> government, for the time, rules are there, he has to comply with
>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>> If we give in to approach of petty functionaries thwarting rules,
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> will be no rule of law in this country.
>>>>>>> Moreover, why does anybody require banking facilities? So, there is
>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>> rational behind this question.
>>>>>>> And, about ATM, bank is not responsible anyway for misuse or loss.
>>>>>>> Check book is another matter, and I have time and again pointed out
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> lacunae in the policy pertaining to it.
>>>>>>> So, we can not hold bankers denying it to fault.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to
>>>>>>> create
>>>>>>> Him."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                                        --Arthur C. Clarke
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (Rajesh Asudani)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Assistant General Manager,
>>>>>>> Reserve Bank of India
>>>>>>> Nagpur
>>>>>>> 09420397185
>>>>>>> O: 0712 2806676
>>>>>>> Res: 0712 2591349
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: accessindia-bounces at accessindia.org.in
>>>>>>> [mailto:accessindia-bounces at accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal
>>>>>>> Verma
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:51 PM
>>>>>>> To: accessindia at accessindia.org.in
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Noone has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB. RBI framed
>>>>>>> rules
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> circulars, but being a Branch Manager, it seems impractical to issue
>>>>>>> ATM
>>>>>>> card to the blind customers. Let me argue the matter with the blind
>>>>>>> customer
>>>>>>> who is in need of ATM card and cheque book. Why does he need ATM
>>>>>>> card
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> cheque book and how shall I issue? Let him convince me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>> Kamal Verma
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Mahesh Panicker" <maheshspanicker at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> dear Mr. Verma. .
>>>>>>>> surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I
>>>>>>>> haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I had
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd contacted
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to
>>>>>>>> complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of
>>>>>>>> India
>>>>>>>> ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my card
>>>>>>>> after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with the
>>>>>>>> PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, this
>>>>>>>> happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the
>>>>>>>> disabled on banking facility.
>>>>>>>> and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being asked
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you heard
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> anything more obnoxious?
>>>>>>>> banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record when
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so we
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> to take the struggle against such horrible institutional nonsense
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> all possible levels including the media.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 5/24/10, Kamal Verma <kamalverma at pnb.co.in> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am surprised to note various complaints against PNB in this
>>>>>>>>> list.
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>>>> availing all the banking facilities, such as cheque book, debit
>>>>>>>>> card,
>>>>>>>>> credit
>>>>>>>>> card, internet banking, etc. PNB does not ignore the blind
>>>>>>>>> community,
>>>>>>>>> hence
>>>>>>>>> if any problem occurs, it may be communicated to the higher
>>>>>>>>> authorities
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> PNB with the name and designation of the concerned officer.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>> Kamal Verma
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mahesh Panicker"
>>>>>>>>> <maheshspanicker at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 8:39 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> > banking is one area where there is a lot of discrimination
>>>>>>>>> > against
>>>>>>>>> > the
>>>>>>>>> > visually challenged. opening an account itself isn't any easier,
>>>>>>>>> > but
>>>>>>>>> > ones you open an account, getting the common banking facilities
>>>>>>>>> > like
>>>>>>>>> > ATM cards and check book is an absolute nightmare.I've an
>>>>>>>>> > account
>>>>>>>>> > with
>>>>>>>>> > the Punjab National Bank, and I had my struggle of my life to
>>>>>>>>> > get
>>>>>>>>> > my
>>>>>>>>> > ATM card issued. it took me a good 7 month for the same to be
>>>>>>>>> > done.
>>>>>>>>> > the struggle for the check book was also on similar lines, and
>>>>>>>>> > although I've got the checkbook, it has come with a lot of
>>>>>>>>> > conditions.
>>>>>>>>> > most people on access india can tell you similar stories. I
>>>>>>>>> > believe
>>>>>>>>> > some of our own members have taken a lot of initiative in this
>>>>>>>>> > regard,
>>>>>>>>> > and the 2008 RBI order is an achievement because of such
>>>>>>>>> > initiatives.
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > On 5/23/10, BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA <bsvermadurg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > > blind persons should organize and conduct an agitation before
>>>>>>>>> > > the
>>>>>>>>> banking
>>>>>>>>> > > division and finance ministry. this is the only solution.
>>>>>>>>> > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "rahul cherian"
>>>>>>>>> > > <rahul.cherian at inclusiveplanet.com>
>>>>>>>>> > > To: <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
>>>>>>>>> > > Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 12:47 PM
>>>>>>>>> > > Subject: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
>>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>>> > > > Folks,
>>>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > > I have been asked to prepare a comprehensive note on the
>>>>>>>>> > > > issues
>>>>>>>>> > > > that
>>>>>>>>> > > persons
>>>>>>>>> > > > with visual impairment face with banking in India,
>>>>>>>>> > > > especially
>>>>>>>>> > > > in
>>>>>>>>> > > >  >
>>>>>>>>> leading
>>>>>>>>> > > > banks such as ICICI, HDFC and SBI, along with possible
>>>>>>>>> > > > solutions.
>>>>>>>>> > > > This
>>>>>>>>> > > note
>>>>>>>>> > > > has been asked for by some senior people I know personally
>>>>>>>>> > > > in
>>>>>>>>> > > > these
>>>>>>>>> > > >  >
>>>>>>>>> banks.
>>>>>>>>> > > > If anyone would like to help me prepare this note do let me
>>>>>>>>> > > > know
>>>>>>>>> > > > at
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> > > > earliest. If anyone has the details of any such note which
>>>>>>>>> > > > has
>>>>>>>>> > > > been
>>>>>>>>> > > prepared
>>>>>>>>> > > > earlier do forward that to me.
>>>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > > Best regards,
>>>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > > Rahul Cherian
>>>>>>>>> > > > Inclusive Planet
>>>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > > On 23 May 2010 12:39, Srinivasu Chakravarthula
>>>>>>>>> > > <srinivasu at srinivasu.org>wrote:
>>>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > > > Hi Dinesh,
>>>>>>>>> > > > > Can you provide us with little more details about your
>>>>>>>>> > > > > problem
>>>>>>>>> > > > > with
>>>>>>>>> > > > > Yahoo! Messenger so as to help you better?
>>>>>>>>> > > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > > > Regards,
>>>>>>>>> > > > > Srinivasu
>>>>>>>>> > > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > > > On 5/23/10, dinesh shukla <dineshshukla2815 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> > > > > wrote:
>>>>>>>>> > > > > >     dear friends I am not able to chatte with the help
>>>>>>>>> > > > > > of
>>>>>>>>> > > > > > Yahoo
>>>>>>>>> > > > > massenger.
>>>>>>>>> > > > > > please help me to do  the same telling me the steps.
>>>>>>>>> > > > > > Dinesh
>>>>>>>>> > > Shukla.
>>>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > > > > To unsubscribe send a message to >
>>>>>>>>> > > accessindia-request at accessindia.org.inwith
>>>>>>>>> > > > > > the subject unsubscribe.
>>>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > > > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any
>>>>>>>>> > > > > > other
>>>>>>>>> > > > > >  >
>>>>>>>>> > > > > >  > >
>>>>>>>>> changes,
>>>>>>>>> > > > > please
>>>>>>>>> > > > > > visit the list home page at
>>>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > > >
>>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>>>
>> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
>>>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > > > --
>>>>>>>>> > > > > Sent from my mobile device
>>>>>>>>> > > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > > > Best regards,
>>>>>>>>> > > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > > > Srinivasu Chakravarthula
>>>>>>>>> > > > > Mobile: +91 990 081 0881
>>>>>>>>> > > > > Website: http://www.srinivasu.org
>>>>>>>>> > > > > Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/sriniworld/
>>>>>>>>> > > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > > >
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>>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>>>
>> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
>>>>>>>>> > > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > > To unsubscribe send a message to
>>>>>>>>> > > accessindia-request at accessindia.org.in with the subject
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>>>>>>>>>
>> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
>>>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>>> > >
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>> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
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>>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > --
>>>>>>>>> > Mahesh S. Panicker
>>>>>>>>> > C123;
>>>>>>>>> > Dayanand Colony;
>>>>>>>>> > Lajpat Nagar4;
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > New delhi india.
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> >
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>>>>>>>>>
>> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Mahesh S. Panicker
>>>>>>>> C123;
>>>>>>>> Dayanand Colony;
>>>>>>>> Lajpat Nagar4;
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> New delhi india.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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