[AI] Difficulties in Banking

Viraj Kafle vkafle at gmail.com
Tue May 25 22:53:44 EDT 2010


I recently tried to make a transaction online using my SBI debit card 
through CCAvenue. The transaction got stuck in the final stage. The amount 
got debited from my account but remained uncredited to the merchant. I 
complained giving reference to the transaction number and the amount got 
duely refunded by CCAvenue. To the best of my knowledge, nobody lost any job 
during the process.

Such things can happen to any customer regardless of one is disabled or not, 
and things can be thus sorted out. But I don't think the authorities who are 
hell bent on denying us our rights are at all concerned of the safety of our 
money. Had this been a case, they could have advocated for accesibility 
instead of depriving us of things we want to avail. Of course, as rightly 
been pointed out, the same or similar kind of logic is used to deprive us of 
our various other rights and requirements, such as education and employment. 
I hope our friends claiming to understand the banker's perspectives also 
understand the essence of our struggle, whether the particular one against 
the denial in the banks or the broader one of the denial virtually 
everywhere.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Subramani L" <lsubramani at deccanherald.co.in>
To: <mrmukeshsharma at gmail.com>; <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking


> If I were to follow Bhavani's rationale, my bank manager is more worried
> about my money's safety than I am. So concerned he is that he would
> never let me take the money in the easiest way I can. Wonderful. First
> of, pl get this clear. I can't see, but I am capable of deciding for
> myself whether the person I am going with to the ATM is trustworthy
> enough or not. Ok, even if I were to lose some money, it would allrt me
> of not getting myself in that situation again. That is how we all learn.
> The problem with bankers not letting us use ATM is that they are posing
> a bigger problem to me than the problem I already face. For instance, I
> have to stand in the queue to withdraw the money, where I have to fill
> in the withdrawal form -for which I have to rely on a stranger- and then
> collect the cash and count the currency in front of many strangers then
> expect to get back to my office hoping not to be mugged by miscreants
> who may be following me from the bank to my office. This is safer than
> ATM according to my bankers. Of course, now I know that they are worried
> about their job and their safety.
>
> Subramani
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: accessindia-bounces at accessindia.org.in
> [mailto:accessindia-bounces at accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Mukesh
> Sharma
> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:58 PM
> To: accessindia at accessindia.org.in
> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
>
> Give me one such case.
> When issuing ATM card, the bank in their pure diplomatic language
> express
> "NO RISK of the BANK" on the misuse of the Card and the undertaking has
> to
> be signed by the customer  and I guess that is sufficient to save your
> job!
> This is what should be done for every customer irrespective of the so
> called
> disability or ability to see or even use ATM independently.
> The bread and butter is forcing you to stand by bankers approach but
> what
> about your personal opinion.
> Or let's do it other way, suppose you are a customer and I am a BM,
> explain
> me why I shouldn't issue a ATM Card to you, if you can not, then help in
> your capacity to get every individual to enjoy facility equally be it of
> ATM
> or Cheque Book.
> A BM is there to make life of customer easier and not difficult else the
> scheme of banking would have not been possible for illiterate and BPL
> customer.
> Thanks
> Mukesh
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: accessindia-bounces at accessindia.org.in
> [mailto:accessindia-bounces at accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of BHAWANI
> SHANKAR
> VERMA
> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:09 PM
> To: accessindia at accessindia.org.in
> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
>
> yes! this is a matter, if that anybody did a fraud with that blind
> person,
> cheated him, then. my four or five colleagues will loose their job, if
> that
> blind person stand before the court. who issued ATM card? the employee
> who
> entered his card details on issue register, the employee entered his
> details
> on CBS system. who will come to convince the court that entire risk goes
> to
> that blind person?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "AMEEN" <ameen.ettattu at gmail.com>
> To: <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:00 AM
> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
>
>
>> screen reading software has nothing to do with issuing ATM cards to VI
>
>> persons.
>> for, he can operate
>> it with the help of anybody whom he chooses.
>> that is non of the business of the bank.
>> if there is any risk involved in it, the person will bear it.
>> then why should raise all lame excuses and arguments?
>> are you willing to comply with the rules and regulations stipulated by
>
>> RBI?
>> Ameen.----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA" <bsvermadurg at gmail.com>
>> To: "B. R. Nautial" <brnautial at gmail.com>; "access india"
>> <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:18 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
>>
>>
>>> you are absolutely right sir, i found that only blind customer's part
> is
>>> discussed here. we should also consider banker's part. secondly,
> again i
>>> am
>>> to say that bank has full right to ask his customer, why he should
>>> require a
>>> check book. only for prestige or he has any use of it. if he or she
> avail
>>> check book facility, he has to maintain minimum balance in his
>>> account to continue this facility. some times we also make our
> blindness
>>> complicated. if any one show the law and rules, then being a banker,
> i am
>>> giving my ATM card and pin number to that blind customer, I will also
>
>>> take
>>> him to the ATM machine, but, i will not assist him to read out the
> menus
>>> and
>>> commands on ATM. will he independently withdraw his money? if so,
> could
>>> anybody voluntarily come to have a practical session? condition is a
>>> person
>>> should be bona fied blind. RBI says that 33% of
>>> ATMs should be accessible to blind persons, and it is stated on the
> same
>>> circular, which all our friends have mentioned here. now as a branch
>>> manager, it does not come in my power to install such ATMs. only my
> head
>>> office can do that. now in writing, i can reply that customer: "I
> accept
>>> your application for ATM card. since, as per the RBI circular our
> branch
>>> does not have ATM accessible to blind person, and also in our city
> there
>>> is
>>> no ATM installed, which is accessible to the blind person, hence,
> your
>>> application is pending for consideration. as soon as. an accessible
> ATM
>>> will
>>> be installed, you will be facilitated ATM card. our hon'ble blind
>>> customer
>>> unable to operate ATM which exist in our branch,  independently,
> further,
>>> this matter has
>>> been referred to our authorities."
>>> thanking you,
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "B. R. Nautial" <brnautial at gmail.com>
>>> To: <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
>>> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 7:40 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
>>>
>>>
>>>> no sir, its not a question of ego here. in my opinion, both the
> parties
>>>> are almost right on their places. generally, all these facilities
> are
>>>> quite risky for the blind, that's why, most of the bank manager of
>>>> various
>>>> banks are not even against the blind customers but don't want to
> give
>>>> all
>>>> these facilities to the them only because they know,
>>>> in case of any fraud with the blind customer, they may be questioned
>>>> before the court and may be punished for their negligence.
>>>> In various banks, where the branch manager is flexible and satisfied
>
>>>> with
>>>> your arguments or fully aware with the rules and regulations, they
> are
>>>> more sympathetic  with the blind. They don't create such problems to
> any
>>>> of the blind person. More or less,  they are not our enemy so
>>>> the issue should be raised before the higher authorities  with the
> help
>>>> of various NGO's.
>>>>
>>>> With Regards
>>>> B. R. Nautial
>>>> Mobile: +919915073368
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Kamal Verma" <kamalverma at pnb.co.in>
>>>> To: <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
>>>> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:26 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Sir,
>>>>>
>>>>> The customer is trying to satisfy his ego. Otherwise, he should
> have
>>>>> produced NOC or any such endorsement from his parrents.  The
> problems
>>>>> might have been solved. Details of this blind  customer have not
> been
>>>>> discussed in the list. There are number of blind customers availing
>
>>>>> ATM,
>>>>> cheque book and other facilities from PNB.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards.
>>>>> Kamal Verma
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Asudani, Rajesh" <rajeshasudani at rbi.org.in>
>>>>> To: <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:56 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>        Who is bloody branch manager to sit in judgment over rules
>>>>>> framed
>>>>>> by regulator?
>>>>>> If he/she has to question them, let him represent to central bank
> or
>>>>>> government, for the time, rules are there, he has to comply with
> them.
>>>>>> If we give in to approach of petty functionaries thwarting rules,
>>>>>> there
>>>>>> will be no rule of law in this country.
>>>>>> Moreover, why does anybody require banking facilities? So, there
> is no
>>>>>> rational behind this question.
>>>>>> And, about ATM, bank is not responsible anyway for misuse or loss.
>>>>>> Check book is another matter, and I have time and again pointed
> out
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> lacunae in the policy pertaining to it.
>>>>>> So, we can not hold bankers denying it to fault.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to
> create
>>>>>> Him."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                                        --Arthur C. Clarke
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (Rajesh Asudani)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Assistant General Manager,
>>>>>> Reserve Bank of India
>>>>>> Nagpur
>>>>>> 09420397185
>>>>>> O: 0712 2806676
>>>>>> Res: 0712 2591349
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: accessindia-bounces at accessindia.org.in
>>>>>> [mailto:accessindia-bounces at accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal
>
>>>>>> Verma
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:51 PM
>>>>>> To: accessindia at accessindia.org.in
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Noone has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB. RBI framed
>>>>>> rules
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> circulars, but being a Branch Manager, it seems impractical to
> issue
>>>>>> ATM
>>>>>> card to the blind customers. Let me argue the matter with the
> blind
>>>>>> customer
>>>>>> who is in need of ATM card and cheque book. Why does he need ATM
> card
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> cheque book and how shall I issue? Let him convince me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>> Kamal Verma
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Mahesh Panicker" <maheshspanicker at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> dear Mr. Verma. .
>>>>>>> surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I
>>>>>>> haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I
> had a
>>>>>>> real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd contacted
> the
>>>>>>> higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to
>>>>>>> complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of
>>>>>>> India
>>>>>>> ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my card
>>>>>>> after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with
> the
>>>>>>> PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned,
> this
>>>>>>> happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the
>>>>>>> disabled on banking facility.
>>>>>>> and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being
> asked
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you
> heard
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> anything more obnoxious?
>>>>>>> banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record
> when
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so we
>
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> to take the struggle against such horrible institutional nonsense
> to
>>>>>>> all possible levels including the media.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/24/10, Kamal Verma <kamalverma at pnb.co.in> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am surprised to note various complaints against PNB in this
> list.
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>>> availing all the banking facilities, such as cheque book, debit
>>>>>>>> card,
>>>>>>>> credit
>>>>>>>> card, internet banking, etc. PNB does not ignore the blind
>>>>>>>> community,
>>>>>>>> hence
>>>>>>>> if any problem occurs, it may be communicated to the higher
>>>>>>>> authorities
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> PNB with the name and designation of the concerned officer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>> Kamal Verma
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mahesh Panicker"
>>>>>>>> <maheshspanicker at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 8:39 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> > banking is one area where there is a lot of discrimination
> against
>>>>>>>> > the
>>>>>>>> > visually challenged. opening an account itself isn't any
> easier,
>>>>>>>> > but
>>>>>>>> > ones you open an account, getting the common banking
> facilities
>>>>>>>> > like
>>>>>>>> > ATM cards and check book is an absolute nightmare.I've an
> account
>>>>>>>> > with
>>>>>>>> > the Punjab National Bank, and I had my struggle of my life to
> get
>>>>>>>> > my
>>>>>>>> > ATM card issued. it took me a good 7 month for the same to be
>>>>>>>> > done.
>>>>>>>> > the struggle for the check book was also on similar lines, and
>>>>>>>> > although I've got the checkbook, it has come with a lot of
>>>>>>>> > conditions.
>>>>>>>> > most people on access india can tell you similar stories. I
>>>>>>>> > believe
>>>>>>>> > some of our own members have taken a lot of initiative in this
>>>>>>>> > regard,
>>>>>>>> > and the 2008 RBI order is an achievement because of such
>>>>>>>> > initiatives.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > On 5/23/10, BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA <bsvermadurg at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > > blind persons should organize and conduct an agitation
> before
>>>>>>>> > > the
>>>>>>>> banking
>>>>>>>> > > division and finance ministry. this is the only solution.
>>>>>>>> > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "rahul cherian"
>>>>>>>> > > <rahul.cherian at inclusiveplanet.com>
>>>>>>>> > > To: <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
>>>>>>>> > > Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 12:47 PM
>>>>>>>> > > Subject: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>> > > > Folks,
>>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > I have been asked to prepare a comprehensive note on the
>>>>>>>> > > > issues
>>>>>>>> > > > that
>>>>>>>> > > persons
>>>>>>>> > > > with visual impairment face with banking in India,
> especially
>>>>>>>> > > > in
>>>>>>>> > > >  >
>>>>>>>> leading
>>>>>>>> > > > banks such as ICICI, HDFC and SBI, along with possible
>>>>>>>> > > > solutions.
>>>>>>>> > > > This
>>>>>>>> > > note
>>>>>>>> > > > has been asked for by some senior people I know personally
> in
>>>>>>>> > > > these
>>>>>>>> > > >  >
>>>>>>>> banks.
>>>>>>>> > > > If anyone would like to help me prepare this note do let
> me
>>>>>>>> > > > know
>>>>>>>> > > > at
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> > > > earliest. If anyone has the details of any such note which
> has
>>>>>>>> > > > been
>>>>>>>> > > prepared
>>>>>>>> > > > earlier do forward that to me.
>>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > Best regards,
>>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > Rahul Cherian
>>>>>>>> > > > Inclusive Planet
>>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > On 23 May 2010 12:39, Srinivasu Chakravarthula
>>>>>>>> > > <srinivasu at srinivasu.org>wrote:
>>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > > Hi Dinesh,
>>>>>>>> > > > > Can you provide us with little more details about your
>>>>>>>> > > > > problem
>>>>>>>> > > > > with
>>>>>>>> > > > > Yahoo! Messenger so as to help you better?
>>>>>>>> > > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > > Regards,
>>>>>>>> > > > > Srinivasu
>>>>>>>> > > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > > On 5/23/10, dinesh shukla <dineshshukla2815 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> > > > > wrote:
>>>>>>>> > > > > >     dear friends I am not able to chatte with the help
> of
>>>>>>>> > > > > > Yahoo
>>>>>>>> > > > > massenger.
>>>>>>>> > > > > > please help me to do  the same telling me the steps.
>>>>>>>> > > > > > Dinesh
>>>>>>>> > > Shukla.
>>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > > > To unsubscribe send a message to >
>>>>>>>> > > accessindia-request at accessindia.org.inwith
>>>>>>>> > > > > > the subject unsubscribe.
>>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any
>
>>>>>>>> > > > > > other
>>>>>>>> > > > > >  >
>>>>>>>> > > > > >  > >
>>>>>>>> changes,
>>>>>>>> > > > > please
>>>>>>>> > > > > > visit the list home page at
>>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>>
> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.i
> n
>>>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > > --
>>>>>>>> > > > > Sent from my mobile device
>>>>>>>> > > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > > Best regards,
>>>>>>>> > > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > > Srinivasu Chakravarthula
>>>>>>>> > > > > Mobile: +91 990 081 0881
>>>>>>>> > > > > Website: http://www.srinivasu.org
>>>>>>>> > > > > Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/sriniworld/
>>>>>>>> > > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > > To unsubscribe send a message to
>>>>>>>> > > accessindia-request at accessindia.org.inwith the subject
>>>>>>>> > > unsubscribe.
>>>>>>>> > > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any
> other
>>>>>>>> changes,
>>>>>>>> > > > > please visit the list home page at
>>>>>>>> > > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>>
> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.i
> n
>>>>>>>> > > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
>>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > To unsubscribe send a message to
>>>>>>>> > > accessindia-request at accessindia.org.in with the subject
>>>>>>>> > > unsubscribe.
>>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any
> other
>>>>>>>> > > > changes,
>>>>>>>> > > please visit the list home page at
>>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>>
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> n
>>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>> > > To unsubscribe send a message to
>>>>>>>> > > accessindia-request at accessindia.org.in with the subject
>>>>>>>> > > unsubscribe.
>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>> > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other
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>>>>>>>> please
>>>>>>>> > > visit the list home page at
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>>>>>>>>
> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.i
> n
>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > --
>>>>>>>> > Mahesh S. Panicker
>>>>>>>> > C123;
>>>>>>>> > Dayanand Colony;
>>>>>>>> > Lajpat Nagar4;
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > New delhi india.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe send a message to
>>>>>>>> accessindia-request at accessindia.org.in with the subject
>>>>>>>> unsubscribe.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other
>>>>>>>> > changes,
>>>>>>>> please visit the list home page at
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>
> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.i
> n
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> DISCLAIMER:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Information transmitted in this email is solely for the
>>>>>>>> addressee.
>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>>> is
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>>>>>>>> else is unauthorized. Any disclosure, copying, distribution or
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>>>>>>>> action
>>>>>>>> taken by anyone other than by the intended recipient is
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>>>>>>>> be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient then kindly
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Mahesh S. Panicker
>>>>>>> C123;
>>>>>>> Dayanand Colony;
>>>>>>> Lajpat Nagar4;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> New delhi india.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DISCLAIMER:
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>>>>>> National Bank. The bank considers unencrypted email as an insecure
>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> DISCLAIMER:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The Information transmitted in this email is solely for the
> addressee.
>>>>> It
>>>>> is confidential and may be legally privileged. Access to this email
> by
>>>>> anyone else is unauthorized. Any disclosure, copying, distribution
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