[AI] disability and census

Amar Jain amarjain2006 at gmail.com
Sun Apr 18 09:17:34 EDT 2010


@Jignesh Sir if this is how you take it then I am unable to argue further on 
this because my level does not permit me to do so.
Let me tell you that I am not at all over enthuziastic about it.
And if my points appear to you as immatured, then either I do not reach upto 
your maturity level or you do not reach to my maturity level.
Again talking about logic, I understand the purpose of photograph as said by 
Sameer bhaiya also but there also I am not doing any wrong when I say that 
sometimes our eyes clearly indicates our disability. So I don't feel that my 
logic is baseless.
Neither highlighting the disability too much and nor hiding the disability 
is going to help us. So we need to be balanced about it.
Neither you are hurting to me and nor I am trying to hurt you.
We all are expressing our opinions which comes under right to free 
expression as provided by Constitution of India. However while expressing 
the opinion we should bare in mind that our presentation should be good. 
Sometimes our selection of words clearly convey the wrong message.
As far as my lengthy mail is concerned, I am not trying to give any lecture 
but it is a matter of regret that even after reading my long mail which 
clearly brings out my thoughts and intention you could not understand my 
point of view.
Having said all that, I would like to tell you that I do have deep respect 
for your views, and I also expect the same from you.
And not only you, I respect everybody's opinion, but at the other side I 
respect my opinion also.
I have no problem if our views do not match, because every coign has two 
sides.
Let me also make it clear that I have never had the intention to prove you 
or anyone else wrong. Its just that I am expressing my views.
At the end, let me thank you since you are convinced from my logic.
 Regards
Amar Jain.
 --------------------------------------------------
From: "Sameer" <salatey at gawab.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 5:47 PM
To: <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
Subject: Re: [AI] disability and census

>
> Dear Friend,
>
> Our eyes may appear similar to the eyes of sighted people but the white 
> cane we carry tells the world that we are blind. Refusing to mention our 
> disability on the census form does not hide our blindness but tells the 
> sighted world that we are uneasy about our blindness, that we are 
> uncomfortable with it.
>
> About the photograph, the photograph's main purpose is not to show whether 
> a person is disabled or not but just to provide an easily recognisable 
> proof of identity.
>
> And refusing to mention blindness on the census form & still demanding a 
> separate disability card smacks of hypocrisy. It tells the society at 
> large that we are unlike them & are ashamed of the difference & choose to 
> hide it.
>
> I would like all blind & disabled friends to mention the fact of 
> disability on the census forms so that accurate data on disability can be 
> gathered. Also, remember that the census data will be used to create the 
> National Population Registry which is expected to form the backbone of the 
> Unique Identity Card. Refusing to mention disability in the census could 
> result in the disability not being mentioned in the Unique Identity card & 
> excluding you from any concessions provided by government authorities.
> Regards
> Mr. Sameer Latey,
> Mumbai, India
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "jignesh thakur" <jigneshthakur21 at gmail.com>
> To: <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 4:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [AI] disability and census
>
>
> Hi,
> A Fantastic logic.
> I am convinced by the logic. But frankly speaking by so called logic
> and lengthy mail it is possible to prove our immature points, and we
> can easily prove other people wrong the points of vamshisir expectable
> at some extent.
> One more thing, there are many visually impaired persons including me
> whose eyes are as normal as any sighted person, so the logic of
> photograph is simply baseless.
> You intelligent people may be right on your stand, but over
> enthusiasm will definitely damage us... logic is other thing than
> harsh reality. Just keeping highlighted board of disability will not
> going to help us in any way.
> Really sorry if somebody is hurt.
> Thanks.
>
>
> On 4/18/10, Amar Jain <amarjain2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear All,
>> Well in my view including the disability in no way stops us from
>> getting what we want.
>> The views of Rahul bhaiya represents today's bad political situation
>> in the case of minorities.
>> Where as the views of few others are that we will be discriminated
>> just because we are disabled.
>> There was another view represented by someone that even if we apply
>> for something and if the 'sensible' persons sitting their to look into
>> the applications come to know that we are disabled our forms will be
>> rejected.
>> I respect everyone's views, and there is nothing wrong in saying what
>> you want to say.
>> Well dealing with discrimination, I am unable to understand that just
>> because it is written on the card that we are disabled how come we
>> will be discriminated?
>> If it is a discrimination why we do possess medical certificate?
>> Before anyone comes up and say that 'boss medical certificate is
>> required where you specifically want to show that you are disabled and
>> not in general situations'.
>> Wav! I am impressed by your intelligence.
>> Absolutely right. Now when we consider general situations why people
>> will consider our disability when it is not required to do so?
>> And even if they do then how they will deny us the basic things after
>> knowing that we are disabled?
>> Just tell me, that almost everywhere when we require any facility for
>> which we have to fill any form, we fix a photograph on the form. Am I
>> right?
>> If yes, then if I restrict myself at least to visual impairment then
>> generally it is clear from your photograph that you have vision
>> problem. Note my word 'generally'.
>> Then, are you denied the facilities? Lets take pan card for that matter?
>> I think no.
>> So I don't feel that there will be any discrimination. Including
>> disability on the card will just show that you are disabled. You will
>> not be discriminated because of that, however people will come to know
>> that you are disabled then generally you will have their sympethy in
>> India at least.
>> That we already do get whenver any person comes to know about our
>> disability.
>> The only fact which we need to accept that if someone calls us
>> disabled or if someone knows that we are disabled then we should not
>> feel that we are infirior or we are discriminated. Lets accept the
>> fact. And who stops you from showing your caliver in the society?
>> Ultimately your performance will take away the sympathetic attitude of
>> people.
>> I would also like to say that when we say that including disability
>> colunm on the card will be the reason of rejecting our application.
>> Specially demat example was given.
>> Tell me, that even today we are facing this problem. Today also many a
>> times our forms get rejected because lack of awareness amongst brokers
>> etc about the guidelines.
>> Today also we need to convince them by showing them the guidelines and
>> our talent of course.
>> Today also we need to find out that our forms are being rejected. Then
>> only we can take any step of meeting them etc.
>> The things which we are doing now from overcoming of these
>> problems,can be done at that time. UID does not stop us from doing
>> that.
>> We are talking about multipurpose eye-card instead of including
>> disability on UID card.
>> But if we are to have such card, then why not let it be on UID card 
>> itself?
>> The best advantage of having this in UID database is that we will not
>> need to follow another lengthy process of getting multipurpose Icard
>> and one card will serve all the purposes.
>> The second advantage of this will be that since disability will be
>> recognized in UID itself we will not need to do any lengthy
>> documentations. Which I can presume that will be added in case of
>> multipurpose card.
>> **I don't say that don't get multipurpose card so persons working on
>> that project don't take me in wrong sense**
>> Still we are faced with many difficulties, which we are overcoming
>> either by ourselves or by the efforts of experts of our field who give
>> their sincere efforts to get the guidelines created.
>> The problem of railway concession the problem of no uniform format in
>> concessions will be taken away by this card itself.
>> I think that this UID project will make our task easier instead of
>> making it difficult.
>> And I think it is very sensible step to include disability in the card
>> itself.
>> And by the way, we are discussing here that we should not include
>> disability then if all agree that it shouldn't be included, then are
>> we going to talk with UID authorities who have already taken this
>> sensible step?
>> However I don't know that how UID will deal with temporary disableds.
>> This is not at all counter reply, these are just and just my personal
>> views. I respect everyone's wisdom.
>> Regards
>> Amar Jain.
>>
>> On 4/18/10, amalesh Kumar <kumar_amalesh at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
>>> dear all,
>>> disability is neither a sin nor a crime, no point in hiding it, i agree 
>>> to
>>> what mr. vamshi says.
>>> regards
>>> kumar amalesh
>>> Asstt. Administrative Officer
>>> LIC
>>>
>>> --- On Sun, 18/4/10, Vamshi. G <gvamshiai at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Vamshi. G <gvamshiai at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [AI] disability and census
>>> To: accessindia at accessindia.org.in
>>> Date: Sunday, 18 April, 2010, 12:41 PM
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> We all are seeing with how much interest the government is pursuing
>>> any work when it is related exclusively to the disabled. So, I doubt
>>> the possibility of a multipurpose disability card being issued at the
>>> national level.
>>>
>>> Caste, religion etc. can't be identified without a certificate, but
>>> disability can be identified by the very presence of the person. So,
>>> I don't know how and why we want to hide this aspect.
>>>
>>> Coming to denial of services,even now, we can't escape from being
>>> discriminated because there has to be a personal interaction for
>>> availing those services. And in the recent past, we've seen some
>>> cases wherein we've been successful in availing these services.
>>>
>>> And Rahul sir, correcting you is a far away thing, first let me
>>> understand you, honestly, I didn't get your exact intent when you
>>> emphasised so much on my option of availing benefits. So, please
>>> educate me in that area, either on the list or off the list.
>>>
>>> I personally feel having disability on the UID card is one form of
>>> inclusiveness.
>>>
>>> --
>>> G. Vamshi
>>> PH Res : +91 877-2243861
>>> Mobile: +91 9949349497
>>> E-mail ID:
>>> gvamshiai at gmail.com
>>> Skype: gvamshi81
>>>
>>> www.retinaindia.org
>>> >From darkness unto light
>>>
>>>
>>> On 4/18/10, jignesh thakur <jigneshthakur21 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Sir,
>>>> In our country many people consider disability as like asirias crime.
>>>> There is a question of expectance, if the disability would menssion on
>>>> the card, our lots of application and other things will rejected
>>>> automatically. We live in the country where people have not much
>>>> respect for disable person.
>>>> My point is that the disability on the card will not give us a chanse
>>>> to prove ourself at many places. For example once I submitted my
>>>> documents for trading account, the company expected it willingly, but
>>>> when we had face to face meeting for formalities, he realized that I
>>>> am visually impaired person, and he suddenly rejected my application.
>>>> How ever I could convince him to give me his services. If I had
>>>> produced disability card at that time the result might have different.
>>>> That’s why I am against it.
>>>> Though vamshisir and other are more intelligent they can thing far
>>>> better than me. I am just writing my thoughts.
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 4/17/10, rahul cherian <rahul.cherian at inclusiveplanet.com> wrote:
>>>>> Let me put it this way. Would you be ok if your religion or you caste
>>>>> were
>>>>> on the UID? What if you are a minority community living in a state 
>>>>> like
>>>>> Gujarat and riots like the Godhra riots happened? Would you want to be
>>>>> easily identified based on your religion? My concern with disability
>>>>> being
>>>>> one of the parameters is something similar. I am sure this comes 
>>>>> across
>>>>> as
>>>>> me being paranoid but I think that having disability as one of the
>>>>> parameters could lead to abuse of the information to the detriment of
>>>>> persons with disabilities.
>>>>>
>>>>> Vamshi, what you want is a multipurpose certificate of disability 
>>>>> which
>>>>> you
>>>>> can use, at your option, I repeat, at your option to avail of 
>>>>> benefits.
>>>>>
>>>>> I confess that I have not done much research into this area so please
>>>>> correct me if I am wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Rahul
>>>>>
>>>>> On 17 April 2010 22:25, Vamshi. G <gvamshiai at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> But if having disability as one of the fields in the UID exempts me
>>>>>> from carrying a separate disability certificate, railway concession
>>>>>> certificate, bus travel concession
>>>>>> card etc. , and enables me to book all tickets on line by providing
>>>>>> the UID number, and I'm provided with all the benefits I'm entitled 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> without me requiring to go through the cumbersome procedures, I would
>>>>>> rather prefer to have it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> G. Vamshi
>>>>>> PH Res : +91 877-2243861
>>>>>> Mobile: +91 9949349497
>>>>>> E-mail ID:
>>>>>> gvamshiai at gmail.com
>>>>>> Skype: gvamshi81
>>>>>>
>>>>>> www.retinaindia.org
>>>>>> >From darkness unto light
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/17/10, rahul cherian <rahul.cherian at inclusiveplanet.com> wrote:
>>>>>> > I think that having disability as one of the fields in the UID will
>>>>>> > be
>>>>>> > violative of my right to privacy and could lead to discrimination. 
>>>>>> > I
>>>>>> > am
>>>>>> > against it.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On 17 April 2010 20:44, ashik <ashikhirani at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> Dear Friend,
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Only because it will serve as an all-in-all identity card. We will
>>>>>> >> not
>>>>>> >> have
>>>>>> >> carry different cards for different purposes. Sypanthy is not an
>>>>>> >> issue
>>>>>> at
>>>>>> >> all.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> - - -
>>>>>> >> Ashik Hirani
>>>>>> >> Landline phone: 02849-242233
>>>>>> >> Skype: ashikali.hirani
>>>>>> >> I would prefer flowers on my table rather than diamonds in my
>>>>>> >> necklace.
>>>>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jignesh thakur" <
>>>>>> >> jigneshthakur21 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> To: <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
>>>>>> >> Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 4:03 PM
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [AI] disability and census
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Friends,
>>>>>> >> This is just my opinion. Why we want to include disability in uid
>>>>>> >> card? Our identity is only disability? Lots of will have to suffer
>>>>>> >> because of the label disable on the card. General information is
>>>>>> >> enough. To mansion disability is just issue. And it will only for
>>>>>> >> meaningless sympathy.
>>>>>> >> Let me tell you again this is just my opinion. I don’t want to 
>>>>>> >> hurt
>>>>>> >> anybody. There are lots of intelligent friends are on the list, 
>>>>>> >> and
>>>>>> >> they know more than me.
>>>>>> >> Thanks.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> On 4/17/10, ashik <ashikhirani at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>> Yes doctor. I think disability must be mentioned in the proposed
>>>>>> >>> UID
>>>>>> >>> card.
>>>>>> >>> And I regret to say that the procedure for the UID card does not
>>>>>> include
>>>>>> >>> the
>>>>>> >>> mention of disability. So, it can be safely concluded that
>>>>>> >>> disability
>>>>>> >>> will
>>>>>> >>> not be mentioned in the UID card. It's a sad story indeed. Proper
>>>>>> >>> representation should be maded to the government and we should
>>>>>> pressurize
>>>>>> >>> it
>>>>>> >>> to include disability as one of the thins in the UID card.
>>>>>> >>> - - -
>>>>>> >>> Ashik Hirani
>>>>>> >>> Landline phone: 02849-242233
>>>>>> >>> Skype: ashikali.hirani
>>>>>> >>> I would prefer flowers on my table rather than diamonds in my
>>>>>> >>> necklace.
>>>>>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> >>> From: "Dr Jalaja" <jalajakumarits at gmail.com>
>>>>>> >>> To: "accessindia" <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
>>>>>> >>> Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 9:33 PM
>>>>>> >>> Subject: Re: [AI] disability and census
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> Hello sir,
>>>>>> >>>> I am also wondering why the list members are
>>>>>> >>>> remaining
>>>>>> >>>> silent in this matter. .Let us wait and see what will happen 
>>>>>> >>>> after
>>>>>> >>>> completing all the procedures, and when things are out of our
>>>>>> >>>> hands
>>>>>> >>>> nothing can be done . it is better to take proper notification
>>>>>> >>>> right
>>>>>> now
>>>>>> >>>> With regards--------Dr.Jalaja
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
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>>>>>> accessindia-request at accessindia.org.in
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>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
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