[AI] Banks-Volunteers

Rajesh Asudani rajeshasudani at rbi.org.in
Fri Sep 14 03:00:42 EDT 2007


Well, there was never, nor is and never will be, a trace of any disrespect 
about views of anybody or any approach adopted in combating discrimination 
against the disabled in any of my communications, that is what I think.

The long and short of all my arguments is:

1. Practical demonstration of ATM operation on the basis of memory is not 
logically sufficient for them to decide that all blind customers be issued 
ATM cards henceforth:
2. Moreover, this mode  of memory is not routinely resorted to by an average 
blind user of banking facilities and is essentially fraught with risks, 
besides unduly demeaning the role of legitimate human support;
3. To top it all, such demonstration is an affront to our dignity and 
vindication of the stand that a blind is not fully competent to contract;
4 Lastly, it speaks volumes about lack of post-operational thinking on the 
part of our decision makers which is a malignant sign and we are acquiescing 
to it.

Inspite of that, all the best for the endeavor!

Sorry, I am not a man of few words, not at least in writing.

Rajesh
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "nafisa buhariwala" <nafisapb at hotmail.com>
To: <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: [AI] Banks-Volunteers


>I dont think anyone is disputing the fact that human existance is based on
> interdependence. The arguement here is that we should try and be as
> independent as possible. Our work should not stall just because we do not
> have sighted help. Even able bodied people i.e people in general are
> interdependent on one another. Rajesh, I think u r stretching the point a
> little too far. I think onthis group people r just trying to get to each
> other. Why dont we just respect others views and make arguements shorter.
> Why do we have so many mails on one topic. Whoever feels comfortable can
> take as much assisstance as they want. No one stopping them. Lets have
> things in place for those who would like to work independently. This is 
> just
> beginning. We have a long way to go.
> Regards Nafisa
>
>
>>From: "Rajesh Asudani" <rajeshasudani at rbi.org.in>
>>Reply-To: accessindia at accessindia.org.in
>>To: "Geetha Shamanna"
>><geetha at millernorbert.de>,<accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
>>Subject: Re: [AI] Banks-Volunteers
>>Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 10:56:22 +0530
>>
>>Then, talking ATM machines is the only viable solution, for otherwise, a
>>blind user may not hope to achieve total independence, not at least in
>>operating ATMs.
>>
>>However, endorsing the demand for talking ATMs, I am not at all aversive 
>>to
>>necessary and legitimate human assistance whenever required, even for
>>monetary transactions.
>>
>>As a logical corolary of total independece in financial transactions, let
>>us
>>also demand accessible account opening, deposit  and other slips from 
>>banks
>>etc.
>>
>>In short, let us make all our dealings with financial entities accessible
>>and independent!
>>
>>Still, do you forsee a day when no support, even to tackle a contingency
>>would be required in financial transactions? And, a contingency in
>>financial
>>or other matters like transport does make us more vulnerable and 
>>revealing,
>>even to strangers, than taking legitimate support in routine transactions.
>>
>>Again, the case of social isolates--whether temporary or otherwise--is not
>>covered by my observations.
>>
>>The only point I am trying to make in this protracted debate is that
>>legitimate human support must be factored in by the disabled as well as 
>>the
>>decision makers alike, when a disabled agrees to contract in legal
>>capacity.
>>
>>In case of ATM cards, perhaps, the situation isbeing equated with issuing
>>driving license by decision makers. We, of course, may not argue that we
>>could drive a car with legitimate human support for obtaining license. 
>>Here
>>the case is different: involving lives of others, though I sincerely
>>believe
>>there are individuals who would go to the length of arguing for a driving
>>license to a blind also! However, it would be travesty of Justice, in
>>existing standards of technological growth.
>>
>>Rajesh
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Geetha Shamanna" <geetha at millernorbert.de>
>>To: <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
>>Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 10:24 AM
>>Subject: Re: [AI] Banks-Volunteers
>>
>>
>> > Hi Atul,
>> >
>> > Interdependence is not very desirable when it comes to handling bank
>> > accounts. I would any day prefer to hold an independent account to a
>>joint
>> > account, even if I were married. Insistence on a joint account is an
>> > infringement of our basic rights and we should aim at achieving 
>> > complete
>> > independence in this regard.
>> >
>> > Geetha
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Atul Ranjan Sahay" <arsahay at accessindia.org.in>
>> > To: <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
>> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 5:35 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [AI] Banks-Volunteers
>> >
>> >
>> > To my mind, any human being who is ready to take responsibility for his
>> > transactions has the inherent right to get and use debit/credit cards.
>>On
>> > the issue of not using a sighted assistance, let me say that
>> > interdependence
>> > is a better and ore matured state of existence than independence.
>>However
>> > as
>> > stated by one of the most successful author of our time, 
>> > interdependence
>> > is
>> > a choice which only independent people can make. Hence this fight for
>> > independence.
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "mahendra" <galani at chello.at>
>> > To: <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
>> > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 11:06 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [AI] Banks-Volunteers
>> >
>> >
>> >> all said and done, i still feel, no sighted help please.
>> >> At 07:06 AM 9/10/2007, you wrote:
>> >>>Well, does it not prove  that we are trying to convince them that we
>>can,
>> >>>and do, do something as a matter of routine which, most of us are
>> >>>uncomfortable doing, and do not do otherwise when required by extreme
>> >>>exigencies!
>> >>>
>> >>>Rajesh
>> >>>----- Original Message -----
>> >>>From: "nafisa buhariwala" <nafisapb at hotmail.com>
>> >>>To: <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
>> >>>Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 11:12 AM
>> >>>Subject: Re: [AI] Banks-Volunteers
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> > Hi Kanchan,
>> >>> > I agree to most of what u say and will be there if u need me. Once
>>and
>> >>> > for
>> >>> > all this needs to be sorted with the banks. But just a caution the
>> >>> > steps
>> >>> > may
>> >>> > not absolutely sequencial as there may be a msg if some thing is a
>> >>> > miss
>> >>> > like
>> >>> > insufficient balance in the account. Just be careful.
>> >>> > Nafisa
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >>From: "Pamnani" <kanchanpamnani at hotmail.com>
>> >>> >>Reply-To: accessindia at accessindia.org.in
>> >>> >>To: <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
>> >>> >>Subject: Re: [AI] Banks-Volunteers
>> >>> >>Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 14:13:37 +0530
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>yes I know therefore the need to do the demo properly. We will
>> >>> >>practise
>> >>> >>and
>> >>> >>we will coordinate before going to the RBI.
>> >>> >>Its not going to be done overnight but I have to ensure that it is
>> >>> >>done.
>> >>> >>The battle with the Banks is not going to tbe over so soon so lets
>>get
>> >>> >>on
>> >>> >>with it.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>Looking for others in Mumbai who can use ATM
>> >>> >>Come on where are the volunteers.
>> >>> >>I am sure people who are not from Mumbai are itching to be
>>volunters.
>> >>> >>Unfortunately RBI is in Mumbai and I need someone from Mumbai.
>> >>> >>Please dont worry about the timings I promise I will try and make 
>> >>> >>it
>> >>> >>as
>> >>> >>easy
>> >>> >>for the volunteers as possible.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>Rajesh for the first time I donot agree with you. I agree with
>>Dinesh
>> >>> >>about
>> >>> >>independence and trust. Anyway please lets not sidetrack.
>> >>> >>Since I am currently having the sad job of tellling 2 of our 
>> >>> >>friends
>> >>> >>that
>> >>> >>I
>> >>> >>cant help them it is my decision to try to solve the problem this
>>way.
>> >>> >>I am experimenting and will keep trying until we succeed.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>Kanchan Pamnani
>> >>> >>Advocate & Solicitor
>> >>> >>9, Suleman Chambers,
>> >>> >>Battery Street, Colaba,
>> >>> >>Mumbai - 400 039.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>----- Original Message -----
>> >>> >>From: "S K" <snk622000 at yahoo.com>
>> >>> >>To: <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
>> >>> >>Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 1:35 PM
>> >>> >>Subject: Re: [AI] Banks-Volunteers
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> > Hi Kanchan,
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> >  ATM machines are not similar in all Branch's. Therefore there
>>may
>> >>> >> > be
>> >>> >> > difficulty in using different machines with different sequence 
>> >>> >> > of
>> >>> >> > operations.
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> >  Regards,
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> >  Suhas Kelkar
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > Pamnani <kanchanpamnani at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> >> >  Thank you very much Nafisa. I presume that you have Central 
>> >>> >> > Bank
>> >>> >> > ATM
>> >>> >> > therefore we will have to go to Main Branch your old office. So
>>do
>> >>> >> > try
>> >>> >>it
>> >>> >> > out and lets zap the RBi guys.
>> >>> >> > Kanchan
>> >>> >> > Kanchan Pamnani
>> >>> >> > Advocate & Solicitor
>> >>> >> > 9, Suleman Chambers,
>> >>> >> > Battery Street, Colaba,
>> >>> >> > Mumbai - 400 039.
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> >> > From: "nafisa buhariwala"
>> >>> >> > To:
>> >>> >> > Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 11:33 AM
>> >>> >> > Subject: Re: [AI] Banks-Volunteers
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> >> Hi Kanchan,
>> >>> >> >> I wiil come as a volunteer but before going as one I will have
>>to
>> >>> >> >> try
>> >>> >>the
>> >>> >> >> ATM a few times.
>> >>> >> >> Nafisa
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >>>From: "Pamnani"
>> >>> >> >>>Reply-To: accessindia at accessindia.org.in
>> >>> >> >>>To:
>> >>> >> >>>CC: kazasudhakar at rbi.org.in,
>>subratadas at rbi.org.in,"K.Ramkrishna"
>> >>> >> >>>
>> >>> >> >>>Subject: [AI] Banks-Volunteers
>> >>> >> >>>Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 14:06:59 +0530
>> >>> >> >>>
>> >>> >> >>>Need Help Urgently
>> >>> >> >>>
>> >>> >> >>>need 3 Volunteers from Mumbai or volunteers who are willing to
>> >>> >> >>>come
>> >>> >> >>>to
>> >>> >> >>>Mumbai who will demonstrate to the RBI bigwigs that the 
>> >>> >> >>>Visually
>> >>> >> >>>challenged
>> >>> >> >>>can and do use A T M.
>> >>> >> >>>The bank does not matter since all banks have branches close to
>> >>> >> >>>the
>> >>> >> >>>R
>> >>> >> >>>B
>> >>> >>I
>> >>> >> >>>in Fort area of Mumbai.
>> >>> >> >>>My first strategy of sending complaints to the RBI Officials
>>does
>> >>> >> >>>not
>> >>> >> >>>seem
>> >>> >> >>>to have worked fully.Some benefitted but in some cases the 
>> >>> >> >>>banks
>> >>> >> >>>are
>> >>> >> >>>adamant they are burying their heads like ostriches and not
>>giving
>> >>> >>proper
>> >>> >> >>>answers. None of them say no but none of them are willing to 
>> >>> >> >>>put
>> >>> >> >>>it
>> >>> >> >>>in
>> >>> >> >>>writing because they know that they will be sued. There are
>> >>> >> >>>currently
>> >>> >> >>>2
>> >>> >> >>>cases amongst our members which need to be resolved.
>> >>> >> >>>
>> >>> >> >>>The plan is to show the R B I officials that we can use ATM
>> >>> >> >>>therefore
>> >>> >> >>>they
>> >>> >> >>>need not fear for our security.
>> >>> >> >>>Lets see.
>> >>> >> >>>Kanchan Pamnani
>> >>> >> >>>Advocate & Solicitor
>> >>> >> >>>9, Suleman Chambers,
>> >>> >> >>>Battery Street, Colaba,
>> >>> >> >>>Mumbai - 400 039.
>> >>> >> >>>
>> >>> >> >>>
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>> >>> ndia.org.in
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >>
>>_________________________________________________________________
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>> >> with warm regards
>> >>        Mahendra Galani
>> >> msn ID mahendragalani at hotmail.com       skype ID chintu3886
>> >> phone +4314943149 mobile +4369910366055 +436769163888  +4381362988
>> >> address Herbst strasse 101.16.1 Vienna Austria Europe
>> >>
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