[AI] Banks-Volunteers

harish kotian hpkotian at rbi.org.in
Fri Sep 7 01:21:43 EDT 2007


Hi Rajesh

All the points well taken and agreed.

In my last meeting with Khaja Sudhakar, he was very apprehensive of the idea 
of totally dependeending on an trusted assistaant.

I put forth all these arguements to which he said he has recieved complaints 
where blind persons have been cheated with their trusted confidants. I am am 
also aware of such incidents.

If we really want a clear cut result, then, it is necessary to demonstrate 
conclusively. Or else, we will neither get a no nor will they issue the 
card. If we have to take it legally, both of the persons are out of Mumbai 
and hence it will be logistically difficult for Kanchan to take it up. 
Otherwise, we will have to wait until a blind person is refused ATM at 
Mumbai.

Harish.



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rajesh Asudani" <rajeshasudani at rbi.org.in>
To: <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: [AI] Banks-Volunteers


> Yes, that's what option 2 in my mail says!
>
> It may be done, once a blind person has memorized particular sequence of a
> bank's ATM machine.
>
> But my point is:
>
> what is the problem in case a blind person employs option 1, i.e. seeks
> assistance from trusted person for operating ATM?,  after all, he/she 
> would
> have to request any trusted person to fill in the withdrawal slip if 
> he/she
> does not have ATM and goes to branch for withdrawal.
>
> Moreover, no bank takes any responsibility for any misuse of ATM of 
> anybody,
> so where does blindness figure?
>
> Thirdly, practically demonstrating to bigwigs is not problem at all in
> practice,
>
> but do you not think it is an affront on our dignity and an indication of
> poor capability on their part to think abstractly?
>
> It is a matter of principle.
>
> I have, many times, operated my ATM successfully alone without any
> assistance merely by memorizing the sequence of options/menus, but will in
> no case, go and demonstrate merely because an arm-chair philosopher wants 
> me
> to proove to him/her that I can do so!
>
> Moreover, such a modality of operation ought to be adopted when there is
> absolutely nobody to assist or anybody whom you could trust, for in case 
> of
> a slightest lapse in memory or any defect in machine, a blind person would
> get stuck and would have to necessarily seek the assistance of a
> person-trustworthy or not.
>
> Let those who would demonstrate do so. I think time has come for more
> drastic measures!
>
> Rajesh
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Harish Kotian" <harish at accessindia.org.in>
> To: <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 8:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [AI] Banks-Volunteers
>
>
>> Hi Rajesh
>> At this juncture, we need to demo by a totally blind using ATM's without
>> assistance using the sequence of operation.
>> Harish.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Rajesh Asudani" <rajeshasudani at rbi.org.in>
>> To: <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
>> Cc: <kazasudhakar at rbi.org.in>; <subratadas at rbi.org.in>;
>> <k.ramkrishna at idbi.co.in>
>> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 3:14 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Banks-Volunteers
>>
>>
>>> Well, the blind person may operate ATM machines in any one of the
>>> following
>>> ways:
>>>
>>> 1. Simplest and by far the most common way is to take assistance of 
>>> one's
>>> trusted sighted person;
>>> 2. By remembering the exact sequence of options/menus after being told
>>> once
>>> by anybody;
>>> 3. By listening to talking menus/options, in case it is provided;
>>> 4. touch screen machines without talking features, not operable, but
>>> manageable with assistance of one's trusted partner.
>>>
>>> It would be unfair to usher in a blind volunteer in a new ATM booth, not
>>> having talking features, without acquainting her/him with sequence of
>>> menus/options, and concluding that she/he can not operate ATM.
>>>
>>> I can comprehend no issue in allowing a blind person use ATM in any
>>> manner
>>> 1, or 2, above, she/he wishes, even if banks may not be compelled at 
>>> this
>>> juncture to install talking once. They may, inn all fairness, be
>>> compelled
>>> to install at least one talking ATM machine in a wide area, or by any
>>> count,
>>> not to universalize touch screens.
>>>
>>> We must convince bigwigs that no bank takes responsibility for any 
>>> misuse
>>> of
>>> ATM of any customer, so blindness is immaterial.
>>> Showing them practically how blind may use ATM, either by remembering or
>>> by
>>> assistance from one's trusted partner, or by listening to talking
>>> prompting,
>>> is tantamount to a move when women were, in the beginning, asked to
>>> furnish
>>> a medical certificate about their fitness to operate a typewriter!!!!!!!
>>> Oh, god! Where has the intellect and abstract thinking vanished!!!!!!
>>>
>>> Rajesh
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Pamnani" <kanchanpamnani at hotmail.com>
>>> To: <accessindia at accessindia.org.in>
>>> Cc: <kazasudhakar at rbi.org.in>; <subratadas at rbi.org.in>; "K.Ramkrishna"
>>> <k.ramkrishna at idbi.co.in>
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 2:06 PM
>>> Subject: [AI] Banks-Volunteers
>>>
>>>
>>>> Need Help Urgently
>>>>
>>>> need 3 Volunteers from Mumbai or volunteers who are willing to come to
>>>> Mumbai who will demonstrate to the RBI bigwigs that the Visually
>>>> challenged can and do use A T M.
>>>> The bank does not matter since all banks have branches close to the R B
>>>> I
>>>> in Fort area of Mumbai.
>>>> My first strategy of sending complaints to the RBI Officials does not
>>>> seem
>>>> to have worked fully.Some benefitted but in some cases the  banks are
>>>> adamant they are burying their heads like ostriches and not giving
>>>> proper
>>>> answers. None of them say no but none of them are willing to put it in
>>>> writing because they know that they will be sued. There are currently 2
>>>> cases amongst our members which need to be resolved.
>>>>
>>>> The plan is to show the R B I officials that we can use ATM therefore
>>>> they
>>>> need not fear for our security.
>>>> Lets see.
>>>> Kanchan Pamnani
>>>> Advocate & Solicitor
>>>> 9, Suleman Chambers,
>>>> Battery Street, Colaba,
>>>> Mumbai - 400 039.
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>
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